Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

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boda
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Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by boda » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:06 pm

Last night Sean Hannity (Fox News contributor) said, “many are hailing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a rising star on the political landscape but in reality, her views, her policy positions, are actually downright scary.” And then showed a graphic outlining her platform:

“Medicare For All”
“Housing As a Human Right”
“A Federal Jobs Guarantee”
“Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban”
“Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons”
“Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE”
“Solidarity with Puerto Rico”
“Mobilizing Against Climate Change”
“Clean Campaign Finance”
“Higher Education for All”
“Women’s Rights”
“Support LGBTQIA+”
“Support Seniors”
“Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall”

Do conservatives actually find these positions scary?

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by kirtu » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:22 am

boda wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:06 pm
Last night Sean Hannity (Fox News contributor) said, “many are hailing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a rising star on the political landscape but in reality, her views, her policy positions, are actually downright scary.” And then showed a graphic outlining her platform:

“Medicare For All”
“Housing As a Human Right”
“A Federal Jobs Guarantee”
“Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban”
“Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons”
“Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE”
“Solidarity with Puerto Rico”
“Mobilizing Against Climate Change”
“Clean Campaign Finance”
“Higher Education for All”
“Women’s Rights”
“Support LGBTQIA+”
“Support Seniors”
“Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall”

Do conservatives actually find these positions scary?
Yes, in the United States many, even most conservatives find most of these positions to be scary.

Kirt
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"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:36 am

That's some horrifying shit!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Virgo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:49 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:36 am
That's some horrifying shit!
Greg you would be amazed by how many hours they can talk about how horrifying they are per day on conservative radio (and tv) programs here.

Kevin...
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:01 am

I watched an interview with her where the running joke was "The GOP are freaking out that I will send some of their kids to college"...pretty much accurate in my opinion.
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by MiphamFan » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:57 am

I think "liberal" immigration laws are meant to exploit the poor and destroy the native working class. Have no issue with the rest except what it means to "support LGBT. I think private businesses have the right to say they can't decorate a cake with LGBT messages.

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:24 am

The whole right-wing media machine is built on fear and demonisation, as is the gun industry. There’s really no use venting about it, as it is just grist to the mill. When you play the game of ‘the other’ then you’re adding to the divide, no matter which side you’re on. And I think the only sane response to Hannity is to utterly and totally ignore him.
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:53 am

boda wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:06 pm
Last night Sean Hannity (Fox News contributor) said, “many are hailing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a rising star on the political landscape but in reality, her views, her policy positions, are actually downright scary.” And then showed a graphic outlining her platform:

“Medicare For All”
“Housing As a Human Right”
“A Federal Jobs Guarantee”
“Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban”
“Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons”
“Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE”
“Solidarity with Puerto Rico”
“Mobilizing Against Climate Change”
“Clean Campaign Finance”
“Higher Education for All”
“Women’s Rights”
“Support LGBTQIA+”
“Support Seniors”
“Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall”
:woohoo: :twothumbsup:
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:26 pm

MiphamFan wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:57 am
I think "liberal" immigration laws are meant to exploit the poor and destroy the native working class.
There is no "native" working class in America.
Have no issue with the rest except what it means to "support LGBT. I think private businesses have the right to say they can't decorate a cake with LGBT messages.
So if a Black american asked for a "Black" message on their cake, do you think the private business should have the right to refuse?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Tenma » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:56 pm

boda wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:06 pm
Last night Sean Hannity (Fox News contributor) said, “many are hailing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a rising star on the political landscape but in reality, her views, her policy positions, are actually downright scary.” And then showed a graphic outlining her platform:

“Medicare For All”
“Housing As a Human Right”
“A Federal Jobs Guarantee”
“Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban”
“Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons”
“Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE”
“Solidarity with Puerto Rico”
“Mobilizing Against Climate Change”
“Clean Campaign Finance”
“Higher Education for All”
“Women’s Rights”
“Support LGBTQIA+”
“Support Seniors”
“Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall”

Do conservatives actually find these positions scary?
Unfortunately, our biology teacher managed to convince over half the class that climate change is only changing by a few degrees and that global warming is helpful to rainforests. As if that's not enough, after a school shooting, he had the entire class join in a discussion about gun control with claims that teachers need guns to defend the school and on he went claiming that certain countries in Europe without militaries have the entire neighborhood have guns instead that work well. The conservative Texan views of so many of these classmates is so serious, that it's hard to believe that some managed to get into the top 20s... :o

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Mantrik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:12 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:26 pm
MiphamFan wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:57 am
I think "liberal" immigration laws are meant to exploit the poor and destroy the native working class.
There is no "native" working class in America.
Have no issue with the rest except what it means to "support LGBT. I think private businesses have the right to say they can't decorate a cake with LGBT messages.
So if a Black american asked for a "Black" message on their cake, do you think the private business should have the right to refuse?
Let's examine the flip side:

Can a lesbian cafe sue a customer who refuses to eat there? I suspect that things have become mad enough for that to happen. Whose rights are more important? Which needs protection most - someone's livelihood or someone's hurt feelings because Snowflake Diddums can't force someone to make them a cake.

I don't have to sell you my car if I don't like the look of you, or your attitude, so why can't a small trader be as free?

Forcing shops and hotels to sell to people is not liberalisation, it is compulsion, bullying pure and simpel. You can't have different laws for different groups in that way ....... what if a Trump supporter, or an NRA supporter or an extreme IS fanatic wanted their message on a cake? Should they be able to sue if you refuse?

What if the message denigrates women, threatens murder of one etc. and you are a Vajrayana practitioner - should you be forced by law to write their message?

Should a B&B be forced to accept everyone in their own home, regardless? How would you like to be forced to take in a few Nazis?
Guess what - if I want to take my dog I find a place that welcomes dogs. If I wanted to take kids, same applies. If I want to smoke, same applies.


The BLT sandwich has got too fat, too bloated with overblown self-importance and the entitlement mentality of ever tinier minorities who want the world to make massive and expensive changes for them. Here's the news - they can buy the sodding cake from someone else, and they can book a different B&B.

In times of huge UK social deprivation, money is being spent in schools on creating toilets or reconfiguring existing ones at huge cost for tiny kids who say yes when questioned if they would like gender transitioning. Meanwhile, other kids in the same school can't get food and teachers are being made redundant.

This isn't liberal. THis is pandering to a tiny self-important minority at the expense of others, with no evaluation of cost/benefit or whose human rights need protecting the most. Yes, most of that list makes sense. The LGBTUGVJW nonsense is pandering to loud campaigners, not those truly in desperate need, by means of 'liberal' oppression.
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Malcolm
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:43 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:12 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:26 pm
MiphamFan wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:57 am
I think "liberal" immigration laws are meant to exploit the poor and destroy the native working class.
There is no "native" working class in America.
Have no issue with the rest except what it means to "support LGBT. I think private businesses have the right to say they can't decorate a cake with LGBT messages.
So if a Black american asked for a "Black" message on their cake, do you think the private business should have the right to refuse?
Let's examine the flip side:

Can a lesbian cafe sue a customer who refuses to eat there? I suspect that things have become mad enough for that to happen. Whose rights are more important? Which needs protection most - someone's livelihood or someone's hurt feelings because Snowflake Diddums can't force someone to make them a cake.

I don't have to sell you my car if I don't like the look of you, or your attitude, so why can't a small trader be as free?

Forcing shops and hotels to sell to people is not liberalisation, it is compulsion, bullying pure and simpel. You can't have different laws for different groups in that way ....... what if a Trump supporter, or an NRA supporter or an extreme IS fanatic wanted their message on a cake? Should they be able to sue if you refuse?

What if the message denigrates women, threatens murder of one etc. and you are a Vajrayana practitioner - should you be forced by law to write their message?

Should a B&B be forced to accept everyone in their own home, regardless? How would you like to be forced to take in a few Nazis?
Guess what - if I want to take my dog I find a place that welcomes dogs. If I wanted to take kids, same applies. If I want to smoke, same applies.


The BLT sandwich has got too fat, too bloated with overblown self-importance and the entitlement mentality of ever tinier minorities who want the world to make massive and expensive changes for them. Here's the news - they can buy the sodding cake from someone else, and they can book a different B&B.

In times of huge UK social deprivation, money is being spent in schools on creating toilets or reconfiguring existing ones at huge cost for tiny kids who say yes when questioned if they would like gender transitioning. Meanwhile, other kids in the same school can't get food and teachers are being made redundant.

This isn't liberal. THis is pandering to a tiny self-important minority at the expense of others, with no evaluation of cost/benefit or whose human rights need protecting the most. Yes, most of that list makes sense. The LGBTUGVJW nonsense is pandering to loud campaigners, not those truly in desperate need, by means of 'liberal' oppression.
The civil rights movement in this country was fought in part because whites refused to serve blacks at restaurants and hotels all over the US. Businesses do not have a right to discriminate.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Mantrik
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Mantrik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:44 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:43 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:12 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:26 pm
There is no "native" working class in America.
So if a Black american asked for a "Black" message on their cake, do you think the private business should have the right to refuse?
Let's examine the flip side:

Can a lesbian cafe sue a customer who refuses to eat there? I suspect that things have become mad enough for that to happen. Whose rights are more important? Which needs protection most - someone's livelihood or someone's hurt feelings because Snowflake Diddums can't force someone to make them a cake.

I don't have to sell you my car if I don't like the look of you, or your attitude, so why can't a small trader be as free?

Forcing shops and hotels to sell to people is not liberalisation, it is compulsion, bullying pure and simpel. You can't have different laws for different groups in that way ....... what if a Trump supporter, or an NRA supporter or an extreme IS fanatic wanted their message on a cake? Should they be able to sue if you refuse?

What if the message denigrates women, threatens murder of one etc. and you are a Vajrayana practitioner - should you be forced by law to write their message?

Should a B&B be forced to accept everyone in their own home, regardless? How would you like to be forced to take in a few Nazis?
Guess what - if I want to take my dog I find a place that welcomes dogs. If I wanted to take kids, same applies. If I want to smoke, same applies.


The BLT sandwich has got too fat, too bloated with overblown self-importance and the entitlement mentality of ever tinier minorities who want the world to make massive and expensive changes for them. Here's the news - they can buy the sodding cake from someone else, and they can book a different B&B.

In times of huge UK social deprivation, money is being spent in schools on creating toilets or reconfiguring existing ones at huge cost for tiny kids who say yes when questioned if they would like gender transitioning. Meanwhile, other kids in the same school can't get food and teachers are being made redundant.

This isn't liberal. THis is pandering to a tiny self-important minority at the expense of others, with no evaluation of cost/benefit or whose human rights need protecting the most. Yes, most of that list makes sense. The LGBTUGVJW nonsense is pandering to loud campaigners, not those truly in desperate need, by means of 'liberal' oppression.
The civil rights movement in this country was fought in part because whites refused to serve blacks at restaurants and hotels all over the US. Businesses do not have a right to discriminate.
Discrimination is everwhere (not a pejorative word per se) and mistreatment because of race or nationality is far from one way in the modern western world. I recall a bunch of Welsh guys wanting to beat the crap out of me because they heard my English accent. I've seen white girls spat at and assaulted in Pakistani ghettos in the UK, etc. It is always wrong, but these days we have so many minorities who can yell about any side of life where the person concerned just doesn't like them.
In the UK we have added laws which esentially mean if a person takes offence about anything, you're a crook, as them taking offence automatically makes you guilty of it. Kafka is back!

Maybe I'm beyond redemption, but I feel It is not reasonable to specifically target a couple running a B&B known to hold deeply Christian beliefs against homosexuality, book a room and turn up at the door as a gay male couple, then have them prosecuted for politely turning you away. That is just malicious and unnecessary.

I do question the ever-expanding number of minorities who yell about their entitlements and have no regard that, as in one example I gave, pandering to a tiny number leads to suffering for a far greater number not deemed to be a 'minority'. I don't know any women who relish performing stuff like changing tampons in the toilets with a six foot hairy-assed bearded bloke in a dress next to them.......surprisingly common they tell me. Now imagine that scenario in schools with girls entering puberty - their embarrassment enforced at a cost of thousands for maybe one child who may not be sure about transitioning.

In another hypothetical example, which is the greater suffering ? Someone from a minority group who has to use a different baker to get a message on a cake, or someone whose prosecution closes them down and leads to poverty and despair, persecuted because they did not cave in and abandon their faith?

I suspect a Moslem butcher would not be prosecuted for refusing to make a pork pie for a customer, and that is when we realise that we have lost sight of the very basis of the law - what is fair, consistent and reasonable.

I'm please a politician has a social conscience but it is ferkin ridiculous to focus on trivia right now. Somehow I think very few will imagine LGBT+++ issues to be of any importance at all while Trump is busy destroying the very fabric of society.
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:55 pm

It seems that as a white middle class male (in a white Chrisitan country) you really have no idea of the power differentials involved.

A Muslim butcher (in a Christian country) refusing to make a pork pie, is not the same as a straight white male refusing to serve a gay or black person. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:05 pm

dialogue.jpg
dialogue.jpg (27.57 KiB) Viewed 359 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Mantrik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:19 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:55 pm
It seems that as a white middle class male (in a white Chrisitan country) you really have no idea of the power differentials involved.

A Muslim butcher (in a Christian country) refusing to make a pork pie, is not the same as a straight white male refusing to serve a gay or black person. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
You misrepresent.

Try:

Christian refuses to create product which contravenes their faith.
Moslem refuses to create product which contravenes their faith.


You are not the judge of whose faith is the more deeply held or important.

I made a separate point about race and its ubiquity across society. You think that one victim of racism is somehow suffering more than another? Too many other variables to shake at stick at there.

Interestingly, your first remark is racist in demeaning me on the basis of my colour. Something like that in the modern UK would land you in court just because I took offence. Yes, it is that mad here. If you had said I have no idea because I am black, your sentence would be far greater, however, I surmise.

(Btw, I worked for decades in UK populations with very mixed racial, gender and socio-economic profiles, Greg, and I still live in a very diverse area with pockets of great deprivation. I think I know enough to make my own mind up about the dynamics of my own society. I may even own up, when pressed, to having Sociology as part of a degree. Bloody leftie, that makes me. ;) )
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Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:22 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:19 pm
You misrepresent.

Try:

Christian refuses to create product which contravenes their faith.
Moslem refuses to create product which contravenes their faith.


You are not the judge of whose faith is the more deeply held or important.
You completely missed the point. Look again at what I said instead of engaging in knee-jerk reactions.
I made a separate point about race and its ubiquity across society. You think that one victim of racism is somehow suffering more than another? Too many other variables to shake at stick at there.

Interestingly, your first remark is racist in demeaning me on the basis of my colour. Something like that n the modern UK would land you in court just because I took offence. Yes, it is that mad here. If you had said I have no idea because I am black, your sentence would be far greater, however, I surmise.
Racism is 95% power and 5% skin colour. Once you understand, that...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Mantrik » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:06 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:22 pm
You completely missed the point.
Hang on. So:

I made the point about the situations. You misrepresented it. I corrected your misinterpretation. So I missed the point of your incorrect representation of the point I made in the first place. Got it.

I didn't miss it. I just didn't accept it.

As for the 95% business........I gave examples of race and religion. You and Malcolm mentioned black, not me, and it was you who referred to my whiteness. I responded to a remark on black oppression with many comments, only one was a passing remark about white girls (unavoidable because the girls were identifiable by colour as suitable victims). It seems to be you with the focus on skin colour.

I'm old enough to have mixed with power at top International, Government and top criminal level (and the mix of both in the Guilds and Masons) , the lowest gang level possible, and others at the dirtiest level such as special forces. I can name the nationalities and family names of those in charge on the streets of cities and town around here and know quite a few of them. Power is not a matter of colour or race, but who the money men decide to back, from top government to street drug gangs. Please stop trying to patronise. ;)
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Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:32 pm

Its interesting to me that among the people defending the right of bakers to refuse orders on religious grounds and the owners of B and B's to chose not to rent rooms to people of a particular sexual orientation was...Peter Tatchell. veteran campaigner for Gay rights.

He argued that attempting to legislate for toleration was likely to backfire, and that it denied a fundamental right. He said he did not want to achieve equality by denying a fundamental right to withhold services even when he totally disgreed with the reasons for so doing.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: Scary Liberal Views and Policy Positions?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:38 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:06 pm
Hang on. So:

I made the point about the situations. You misrepresented it. I corrected your misinterpretation. So I missed the point of your incorrect representation of the point I made in the first place. Got it.
Whatever...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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