Grigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:40 pm
Simon E. wrote: ↑Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:32 pm
He argued that attempting to legislate for toleration...
We are not talking about legislating for tolerance, we are talking about legislating against intolerance.
"I ain't going to serve you because you are a nigger/poofter/commie/etc..." should not be accepted.
"I am not going to serve you a pork pie, because I do not sell pork." is a completely different issue.
By the same retarded token one would call a vegetarian/vegan restaurant intolerant and discriminatory, because it does not serve meat.
Let's get real here for a second.
In the case of the cake I am referring to, it was a pro-gay slogan which the baker refused to supply, not a cake. He did not sell cakes with gay slogans.
In the hypothetical case of the Moslem butcher, it was a specific meat he refused to suppy, not a pie. He did not sell pies with that meat.
Same thing, driven by deep religious conviction.
IN the UK the baker was told they must supply what they did not want to. My point was that a Moslem butcher would be treated differently, however deep the convictions of either shopkeeper.
You seem to want to judge the Moslem as invariably more deeply committed than the Christian, which is itself a dodgy assumption and offensive to many I suspect.
In the case in the US (Colorado?) the baker was allowed not to sell a cake to gays at all. Therefore Malcolm is incorrect. He may wish businesses do not have the right to refuse to serve people, but it seems the court in that case felt the opposite so the law does allow this.
The vegetarian example is spurious as discrimination law does not include diet. However, as I pointed out, in the UK the meathead could claim to be offended and end up with the poor bloody shop owner in court on those grounds.
If we are into the 'get real' scenario, I think in the West very very few people in these gender or sexual preference groups experience the level of discrimination common due to race or colour. And my part of the discussion was mainly about the trivia of pandering to the ever-increasing number of tiny self-righteous minorities whose entitlement mentality is skewing the allocation of the very slim resource available to people in great need.
Academic, largely, as the bottom of the list is unlikely to ever be reached.