Neo nazi's march in DC

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Dan74
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by Dan74 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:16 pm

It's usually about the system. The leaders are products of the system. Plenty of talent in the US. Just not so much among Presidents. But regardless, as Sanders said once, whatever leader you elect, is pretry much bound by the system.

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Queequeg
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:27 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:16 pm
It's usually about the system. The leaders are products of the system. Plenty of talent in the US. Just not so much among Presidents. But regardless, as Sanders said once, whatever leader you elect, is pretry much bound by the system.
Come on, man. That's naive.

A system is made up of people. While a system can serve to hold people in line by limiting their range of conduct, at some point, if the people in the system are just shitty, there are no procedural bumpers that can keep them on course for ever. The US Constitution was set up with this view of human nature - that's the reason for the division of powers between the three branches and the system of checks and balances built into it. It was made to be as idiot proof as possible. But it has its limits. And when corruption sets in, the jig is up. The "system" here is just a piece of paper and only as good as the people who follow it. At present, the "system" is a big, cynical, circle jerk for the government-consultant industrial complex. This is obvious when you look at census data - Washington D.C. metro is among the wealthiest cities in the country per capita which makes little nuts and bolts economic sense since its businesses are pork, bull shit, and phone books of rules for everyone else to follow. They don't make cars, or mine natural resources, or even tech innovations. Its just the usual slime that accumulates around centers of power.

Again, my comment about our creative minority - who is it? Its people like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Sergei Brin, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg - these are the saints we idolize and worship now. These people offer up "tech" and "STEM" as the cure for all our ills, and politically fall somewhere in the libertarian camp, whether socially conservative of socially liberal. Fundamentally, they think we can just code our way through problems. Some people want to see someone from Silicon Valley run for president. That would be a disaster.

No, Buddha had it right - all this comes from fundamental ignorance, and apps, even Headspace, won't save us from its darkness.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Admin_PC
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by Admin_PC » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:32 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:09 am
PS PC, I read about Anglin. There is tons of false vile neo-Nazi material on his site, but he's always been careful to repudiate violence. Regardless, the anger seems to be boiling over. I think it is way past the time, when people undertake a massive grass-roots action to address this shocking rift and bring the society together again. A huge project of some kind, maybe... Something to unite over. Don't you think so?
Unfortunately, while one side is standing up to bigotry and racism, the other side is ignoring the hate-spewing, tiki-torch-wielding, violent white supremacists and responding with "you can't call everyone you disagree with a racist". It's now more common for people on the other side to be deriding those folks punching the Nazis in the face, rather than speaking against the actual Nazis.

PS - I'm not sure how sincere Anglin is in attempting to achieve ethnic cleansing without violence; it's more likely that he's trying to avoid jail time for inciting violence.
月影の いたらぬ里は なけれども 眺むる人の 心にぞすむ
法然上人

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Queequeg
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:27 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:16 pm
It's usually about the system. The leaders are products of the system. Plenty of talent in the US. Just not so much among Presidents. But regardless, as Sanders said once, whatever leader you elect, is pretry much bound by the system.
Come on, man. That's naive.

A system is made up of people. While a system can serve to hold people in line by limiting their range of conduct, at some point, if the people in the system are just shitty, there are no procedural bumpers that can keep them on course for ever. The US Constitution was set up with this view of human nature - that's the reason for the division of powers between the three branches and the system of checks and balances built into it. It was made to be as idiot proof as possible. But it has its limits. And when corruption sets in, the jig is up. The "system" here is just a piece of paper and only as good as the people who follow it. At present, the "system" is a big, cynical, circle jerk for the government-consultant industrial complex. This is obvious when you look at census data - Washington D.C. metro is among the wealthiest cities in the country per capita which makes little nuts and bolts economic sense since its businesses are pork, bull shit, and phone books of rules for everyone else to follow. They don't make cars, or mine natural resources, or even tech innovations. Its just the usual slime that accumulates around centers of power.

Again, my comment about our creative minority - who is it? Its people like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Sergei Brin, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg - these are the saints we idolize and worship now. These people offer up "tech" and "STEM" as the cure for all our ills, and politically fall somewhere in the libertarian camp, whether socially conservative of socially liberal. Fundamentally, they think we can just code our way through problems. Some people want to see someone from Silicon Valley run for president. That would be a disaster.

No, Buddha had it right - all this comes from fundamental ignorance, and apps, even Headspace, won't save us from its darkness.
Following up... look at the people we elect. We elect all kinds of gross people. Those are people we choose. We get what we wish for.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Admin_PC
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by Admin_PC » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:39 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:35 pm
Following up... look at the people we elect. We elect all kinds of gross people. Those are people we choose. We get what we wish for.
True, but given the amount of money required to even qualify as a choice to be presented before the public - we're inherently limited to a certain subset of people.
月影の いたらぬ里は なけれども 眺むる人の 心にぞすむ
法然上人

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Queequeg
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by Queequeg » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:52 pm

Admin_PC wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:39 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:35 pm
Following up... look at the people we elect. We elect all kinds of gross people. Those are people we choose. We get what we wish for.
True, but given the amount of money required to even qualify as a choice to be presented before the public - we're inherently limited to a certain subset of people.
Well, things seem to be changing. The Tea Party movement showed what can be done. Trump himself is proof that there are ways to communicate with voters that bypass media and cost very little. Bernie also proved that a strong campaign can be run without needing to rely on the big money donor/gate keepers. There are a lot of progressives who have made headway in major campaigns without establishment support. Gillum in FL is one recent example. Ocasio Cortez is another. There are quite a few giant killers who take advantage of social media to get their campaigns rolling.

More or less, though, we elect people who resonate with us. Democracy, as imperfect as it is, still is a reflection of us.

Aside - Speaking of democracy in action - Its hilarious watching creepy Ted Cruz just keep getting punked by cool kid Beto. Cruz's head must be exploding that the kids who got laid all the time when they were young are still cooler than him.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

boda
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by boda » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:22 am


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Malcolm
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Re: Neo nazi's march in DC

Post by Malcolm » Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:12 am

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:52 pm
The Tea Party movement showed what can be done...
with massive funding from the Kochs, etc.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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