Mongolian metal!? ...yes

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Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by climb-up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:04 am

Who?
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Grigoris
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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:26 am

;)

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:28 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:04 am
Who?
The HU! I’m into it

Metal thank goodness it is not :-)

An interesting exercise: switch the lyrics/themes in such a way that you get an English, American, Russian, German, etc. version, and it instantly becomes a profoundly worrying, nationalist-themed folk.

(All assuming that the English subtitles are not sheer nonsense, and they very well may be.)
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:41 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:28 pm
Metal thank goodness it is not :-)

An interesting exercise: switch the lyrics/themes in such a way that you get an English, American, Russian, German, etc. version, and it instantly becomes a profoundly worrying, nationalist-themed folk.

(All assuming that the English subtitles are not sheer nonsense, and they very well may be.)
Neo-Folk tends in that direction, unfortunately.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:06 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:41 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:28 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:04 am
Who?
The HU! I’m into it

Metal thank goodness it is not :-)

An interesting exercise: switch the lyrics/themes in such a way that you get an English, American, Russian, German, etc. version, and it instantly becomes a profoundly worrying, nationalist-themed folk.

(All assuming that the English subtitles are not sheer nonsense, and they very well may be.)
Neo-Folk tends in that direction, unfortunately.
Well, here in Europe we can say thanks to Douglas P. for that (although C93 seems to have initiated an anti-authoritarian, anti-fascist and non-traditionalist brand of neofolk, and it is still there, though perhaps still a minority). In the societies that are desperately trying to climb into the first world, the allure of following the nationalist/fascist route into the-glorious-imperial-past-that-never-was appears very hard to resist :-(
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by climb-up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:37 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:26 am
;)

nice!

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Norwegian » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:43 pm

If I am to listen to metal, which sometimes happens, then I certainly don't seek out some sort of politically correct family-friendly metal that is sure to offend nobody. I want the music to sound like an onslaught of terror, or give rise to visuals of dark winter days of the freezing cold north with howling winds. It needs to be hard. That's what metal should be for me. That the lyrics are "less than polite" comes with the territory. Besides it's too difficult to discern everything said anyways in the metal I would listen to (pretty much exclusively from my country).

I'm no metal head, I can listen to and enjoy a vast number of different genres from all over the world, except country, mumble-rap/trap, free jazz, and Justin Bieber (who is far more offensive than any kind of metal anyways, to my ears).

In any case for me lyrics was never the main point. To some it is, but to me it's about sound, and about music, and I've always said this, but if someone can bang two rocks together and make a cool sound of it, then I will listen to it and enjoy it.

The problem with lyrics is that they are pretty much objectionable in almost any genre out there (advertising materialism, hedonism, nihilism, violence, murder, drugs, and so on). Pop, rock, metal, rap, and so on. Of course many people do try to find inspiration or some message to look up to, whatever genre it may be, and then of course seeking inspiration from certain metal lyrics can definitely be a problem. But for me I've never thought like this. I view it as a form of simple entertainment (just like movies, TV series, books, etc.) and if the song is about misanthropy and wrath, it doesn't make me think or feel in that direction. It's all just fiction to me.

And if you're curious about the kind of metal groups I would listen to, it'd be Enslaved, Einherjer, Darkthrone, Immortal, Gorgoroth, God Seed, Emperor, Windir, and similar. If I listen to metal, it's only Norwegian metal (due to their specific sound).

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by climb-up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:49 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:28 pm
climb-up wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:04 am
Who?
The HU! I’m into it

Metal thank goodness it is not :-)
I'm certainly not going to go to the mat for it, but I'm curious of your criteria.
The drums sounded like it to me, andI think it's heavier than a lot that would unquestionably fall under the blanket of metal (not even counts g Ghost, current top metal band that sounds pop to me.
An interesting exercise: switch the lyrics/themes in such a way that you get an English, American, Russian, German, etc. version, and it instantly becomes a profoundly worrying, nationalist-themed folk.

(All assuming that the English subtitles are not sheer nonsense, and they very well may be.)
Yeah, parts of it are more problematic than others in that regard.
The parts about ignoring the valuable doctrines of the parents and of blindly shouting like a bouncer "we're the best" was good, and I really like "how strange, how strange"

Ive heard a few conversations about the difficulty of honoring traditional cultures and practices without spiraling into volkishness.
In re: metal, I listened to viking metal a bit when I was a teenager, wherein the issue of (literal) volkishness sometimes arose. :(

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by climb-up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:53 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:43 pm
If I am to listen to metal, which sometimes happens, then I certainly don't seek out some sort of politically correct family-friendly metal that is sure to offend nobody. I want the music to sound like an onslaught of terror, or give rise to visuals of dark winter days of the freezing cold north with howling winds. It needs to be hard. That's what metal should be for me. That the lyrics are "less than polite" comes with the territory. Besides it's too difficult to discern everything said anyways in the metal I would listen to (pretty much exclusively from my country).

I'm no metal head, I can listen to and enjoy a vast number of different genres from all over the world, except country, mumble-rap/trap, free jazz, and Justin Bieber (who is far more offensive than any kind of metal anyways, to my ears).

In any case for me lyrics was never the main point. To some it is, but to me it's about sound, and about music, and I've always said this, but if someone can bang two rocks together and make a cool sound of it, then I will listen to it and enjoy it.

The problem with lyrics is that they are pretty much objectionable in almost any genre out there (advertising materialism, hedonism, nihilism, violence, murder, drugs, and so on). Pop, rock, metal, rap, and so on. Of course many people do try to find inspiration or some message to look up to, whatever genre it may be, and then of course seeking inspiration from certain metal lyrics can definitely be a problem. But for me I've never thought like this. I view it as a form of simple entertainment (just like movies, TV series, books, etc.) and if the song is about misanthropy and wrath, it doesn't make me think or feel in that direction. It's all just fiction to me.

And if you're curious about the kind of metal groups I would listen to, it'd be Enslaved, Einherjer, Darkthrone, Immortal, Gorgoroth, God Seed, Emperor, Windir, and similar. If I listen to metal, it's only Norwegian metal (due to their specific sound).
Excellent points.
...Einherjar! Its been. long time, but I liked them a lot (at the least the one album I had), Enslaved too. I remember liking Emperor, but to be honest all I remember is the cover art on the album I used to have (it was great).

But man, only Norwegian Black Metal?
so ...no twisted sister for you (I'm a fan) Or Metallica (controversial I know)?
...Mercyful Fate?

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Norwegian » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:02 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:49 pm
I'm certainly not going to go to the mat for it, but I'm curious of your criteria.
The drums sounded like it to me, andI think it's heavier than a lot that would unquestionably fall under the blanket of metal (not even counts g Ghost, current top metal band that sounds pop to me.
I honestly got more pop-rock associations with the sound of that song. Could just be me though :smile:
Excellent points.
...Einherjar! Its been. long time, but I liked them a lot (at the least the one album I had), Enslaved too.

But man, only Norwegian Black Metal?
so ...no twisted sister for you? (I'm a fan) Or Metallica (controversial I know).
Not only Norwegian Black Metal, but mostly. Viking metal too. And some folk inspired metal. Easier though to just call it "Extreme Metal" since some of it is more nondescript. (As for non-Norwegian metal that I can think of, Triptykon from Switzerland, and Rammstein from Germany. Can't really remember anything else.)

Metallica I listened to as a teenager, then was disappointed with their "Black album" and transitioned over to Sepultura, and various thrash and death metal bands, but again I've never been a metal head or identified with any genre or group, so always been about sound for me. At the same time I would say I was infinitely more into European electronic scene or just "techno" as it was called back then. Growing up as a kid I was introduced to a lot of different genres by my mother, though not metal. And so I've always had an open mind towards music. When I could explore these things myself I have gravitated towards a lot of different stuff (soul, funk, classical, jazz, metal, electronic, pop, rap, etc.)

Quite honestly most of the music I listen to these days is Japanese pop, and it's been quite a while since I last listened to metal. But I certainly don't listen to music with the almost religious zeal I had when I was a teen and in my early 20's, that's for sure.

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:41 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:37 pm
nice!
Track down their album "Blood", it has some awesome tracks on it. They have written the soundtracks to a couple of films including the two part biographical film about Genghis Khan. They also play in the film "Khadak" which is strangely enjoyable.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:45 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:43 pm
If I am to listen to metal, which sometimes happens, then I certainly don't seek out some sort of politically correct family-friendly metal that is sure to offend nobody.
Inane logic. I am a big fan of Doom and Stoner Metal but I will refuse to listen to some of the bands in the genre (even they are considered some of the best bands) because of their association and support of white power activities (for example). Now I am the last person one would call "politically correct", but if not wanting to support assholes makes one politically correct then I am happy to wear the label.

I grew up during the punk era where some people wore swastikas for "shock value" and personally I find the practice juvenile and stupid. There are still people alive that suffered terribly under the Nazis, so a little bit of empathy and sensitivity is called for. Again, if being an intelligent human being is the same as being politically correct...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Tiago Simões » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:49 pm

Listen to Tool for a good stoner metal band.

Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:55 pm

Tiago Simões wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:49 pm
Listen to Tool for a good stoner metal band.
Dude, I have been listening to Tool for more than a decade, they are not Stoner Metal/Rock.

The quintessential Stoner / Desert Rock outfit, as far as I am concerned, are Kyuss.

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by climb-up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:58 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:02 pm
But I certainly don't listen to music with the almost religious zeal I had when I was a teen and in my early 20's, that's for sure.


Me neither. Music actually affected us differently back then.


Having taken up ukulele recently I have been listening to a lot more music than I used too, but it's not the same.

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by climb-up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:01 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:45 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:43 pm
If I am to listen to metal, which sometimes happens, then I certainly don't seek out some sort of politically correct family-friendly metal that is sure to offend nobody.
Inane logic. I am a big fan of Doom and Stoner Metal but I will refuse to listen to some of the bands in the genre (even they are considered some of the best bands) because of their association and support of white power activities (for example). Now I am the last person one would call "politically correct", but if not wanting to support assholes makes one politically correct then I am happy to wear the label.

I grew up during the punk era where some people wore swastikas for "shock value" and personally I find the practice juvenile and stupid. There are still people alive that suffered terribly under the Nazis, so a little bit of empathy and sensitivity is called for. Again, if being an intelligent human being is the same as being politically correct...
I completely agree with both of you.
There can be aesthetic merit in some things that are not politically correct, or even good (e.g. my favorite fictions are occult, usually satanists or witches behaving badly), but I'm certainly not goi g to go out and buy an album by a racist or facist band.
Last edited by climb-up on Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Tiago Simões » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:02 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:55 pm
Tiago Simões wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:49 pm
Listen to Tool for a good stoner metal band.
Dude, I have been listening to Tool for more than a decade, they are not Stoner Metal/Rock.

The quintessential Stoner / Desert Rock outfit, as far as I am concerned, are Kyuss.

Progressive rock would be the correct genre then for tool.

I'll have to listen to that later.

Elder is another one of my favs. This dudes are definitely stoner.
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by climb-up » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:07 pm

This is a little random, but since both metal genres and politics have come up, what about a little Nu Metal...
...as covered by a brass band!?

(I just love this and don't often have a reason to share it ...arguably I might not have a reason now!)


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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by Tiago Simões » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:12 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:45 pm
I grew up during the punk era where some people wore swastikas for "shock value" and personally I find the practice juvenile and stupid. There are still people alive that suffered terribly under the Nazis, so a little bit of empathy and sensitivity is called for. Again, if being an intelligent human being is the same as being politically correct...
Adding to that, for a comparison of generations. I grew up in the Emo post-grunge metal gen (early 2000s), instead of swastikas and aggressivity it's suicide and depression. Nowadays its mostly rap with the same themes (and drugs), in which rappers tattoo their faces as if they were highschool desks xD.
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

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Re: Mongolian metal!? ...yes

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:16 pm

climb-up wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:49 pm
I'm certainly not going to go to the mat for it, but I'm curious of your criteria.
The drums sounded like it to me, and I think it's heavier than a lot that would unquestionably fall under the blanket of metal (not even counts g Ghost, current top metal band that sounds pop to me.
YMMV, to begin with -- and, to make matters worse, what I relied upon was a gut feeling, of course :-) The instruments are/feel folk, to be sure. The song has a definite "rock" vibe -- or maybe indeed something of the "metal mood" (which you can find in the posturing of Manowar, for instance) -- but generally when I think metal I have in mind things on the heavier side of Black Sabbath (in the post-hippie age) or Motorhead (in the post-punk age). To me the Mongolian insanity sounded much lighter than any undeniably metal band would, but then again, YMMV :-)

To illustrate:

Heaviness-wise, I would place the Mongolian atrocity in the drawer occupied by The Dead Crew of Oddwood:

Which, while certainly pirate-folkish, is not pirate-folkish *metal.* Pirate-folkish metal is, in my mind at least, a different drawer, in which one can find such horrors of pop culture as Alestorm:

Also, compare the original version of the following Finnish folk metal hit



with its cover version recorded by TDCoO:


(Yes, we live in a world in which the song above is deemed sufficiently great to merit being covered, and repeatedly so.)

OK, off I go. To finish off, here is troll metal, surely one of the weirdest things ever created by our species:



"What a strange, what a strange..."
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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