DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

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amanitamusc
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by amanitamusc »

I wonder if DJKR read this article? UN forces should have stepped in long ago.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/08/1017802
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

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amanitamusc wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:12 pm I wonder if DJKR read this article? UN forces should have stepped in long ago.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/08/1017802
They should have stepped in years ago. A colleague of mine was working in Rakhine state (with an international non-government organisation) over three years ago and reported to me about the problems he had witnessed back then.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

amanitamusc wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:00 pm
Grigoris wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:40 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:12 pmThe opinion piece you posted above was a response to it. And, apparently, DKR has posted it as well a on his facebook page in support of his own letter.
The opinion piece was interesting too (which is why I reproduced it), though it looks like nobody bothered to read it...
I read it and it clearly brings out her love of the army
This was rather frightening. "I have tremendous goodwill towards the military," she says, "so it doesn't in any way bother me to sit with them. I am pleased to be sitting together with them." It would bother me more than a bit to sit with killers. Or so I hope.

Her awareness of the redeemability of us mere mortals is nothing but admirable, obviously. But I do not exactly know how it would bear upon her silence. The writer insists she is "a spiritual politician." Her silence on the genocide subverts the claim, I am afraid.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by BaronAsh »

Tsongkhapafan wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:16 pm Buddhist Teachers should stay away from politics. This is a mistake.
I disagree. This letter is refreshing on many levels, but perhaps the fact that he does indeed enter the current political fray is the highlight in that regard.

Buddhism (or any good, living, wisdom tradition) should not only exist in some sort of discrete, parallel universe that somehow severs ties with the conventional world regarding it as too dirty, too polluting etc. Indeed, trying to create closed-off sanghas is, perhaps, the key trap many teachers and communities fall into.

Ultimately, this involves rejecting ordinary sentient beings, which denotes not only a lack of mahayana inability, but completely disqualifies one from tantra in any meaningful way, but therefore also an essentially Hinayana mentality, which is best suited for those wanting to go full bore into a monastic path. The latter is a fantastic thing, of course, but not suited for everyone, and especially does not lend itself well to the chaotic, multi-level rough and tumble of conventional, moreover usually urban, life. Big City life is, by nature, more akin to tantric style perception-dynamic. DJKR is a great example of and teacher about contemporarily situated vajrayana view and practice.

I also think his critique of many of the more unfortunate aspects of current western behaviour was extremely good example of.... well.... traditional western enlightened discourse totally in accord with, for example, established norms under British common law and its derivative US Constitution. Rarely does one see such disciplined and yet also freedom-embracing clarity of expression in most establishment western publications.

Right on!
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Malcolm »

treehuggingoctopus wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:19 pm
amanitamusc wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:00 pm
Grigoris wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:40 pm The opinion piece was interesting too (which is why I reproduced it), though it looks like nobody bothered to read it...
I read it and it clearly brings out her love of the army
This was rather frightening. "I have tremendous goodwill towards the military," she says, "so it doesn't in any way bother me to sit with them. I am pleased to be sitting together with them." It would bother me more than a bit to sit with killers. Or so I hope.

Her awareness of the redeemability of us mere mortals is nothing but admirable, obviously. But I do not exactly know how it would bear upon her silence. The writer insists she is "a spiritual politician." Her silence on the genocide subverts the claim, I am afraid.
Buddhist kingdoms have a long history of ethnic cleansing.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

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amanitamusc wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:12 pm I wonder if DJKR read this article? UN forces should have stepped in long ago.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/08/1017802
Unfortunately DJKr likes to opine about many things on which he is largely uninformed and which have little to do with the Dharma

If he's going to involve himself in politics, he has a lot to learn. I doubt there will be any meaningful response to this letter outside of those interested in Tibetan Buddhism, because he is not really known outside those circles. But if there were, imagine how easy it would be to attack him for this. "Famous Buddhist teacher praises politician who supports Buddhist genocide, attacks Western countries that fund his lavish lifestyle"? Politics requires skills that he doesn't have.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by amanitamusc »

PeterC wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:49 am
amanitamusc wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:12 pm I wonder if DJKR read this article? UN forces should have stepped in long ago.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/08/1017802
Unfortunately DJKr likes to opine about many things on which he is largely uninformed and which have little to do with the Dharma

If he's going to involve himself in politics, he has a lot to learn. I doubt there will be any meaningful response to this letter outside of those interested in Tibetan Buddhism, because he is not really known outside those circles. But if there were, imagine how easy it would be to attack him for this. "Famous Buddhist teacher praises politician who supports Buddhist genocide, attacks Western countries that fund his lavish lifestyle"? Politics requires skills that he doesn't have.
It may come back to haunt him or even worse, a spill over to other Buddhists.
Last edited by amanitamusc on Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

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I must confess, as a westerner, I have chewed gum and worn faded blue jeans.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

PeterC wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:49 am
amanitamusc wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:12 pm I wonder if DJKR read this article? UN forces should have stepped in long ago.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/08/1017802
Unfortunately DJKr likes to opine about many things on which he is largely uninformed and which have little to do with the Dharma

If he's going to involve himself in politics, he has a lot to learn. I doubt there will be any meaningful response to this letter outside of those interested in Tibetan Buddhism, because he is not really known outside those circles. But if there were, imagine how easy it would be to attack him for this. "Famous Buddhist teacher praises politician who supports Buddhist genocide, attacks Western countries that fund his lavish lifestyle"? Politics requires skills that he doesn't have.

I agree. Occasionally his lack of expertise makes his commentary refreshing, even valuable...other times it just makes him look incredibly ignorant, and (for him i'll bet) embarrassingly pedestrian.
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amanitamusc
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by amanitamusc »

DJKR could learn something from HHDL's response some time ago to the crisis.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/11/asia/roh ... index.html
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Ayu »

Aung San Suu Kyi's answer to DJKR's letter would be interesting. But I can't find such a thing.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Nemo »

So the country that just spent 6 trillion dollars killing 500,000 Muslims since 9/11 is very upset that some human rights were violated. You certainly are the experts.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Ayu »

Nemo wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:02 am So the country that just spent 6 trillion dollars killing 500,000 Muslims since 9/11 is very upset that some human rights were violated. You certainly are the experts.
Who is 'you'?

No need to be a special expert to damn murder and discrimination, I think.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Grigoris »

Discussion on the US and oil wars split to here.
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Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

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Nemo wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:02 am So the country that just spent 6 trillion dollars killing 500,000 Muslims since 9/11 is very upset that some human rights were violated. You certainly are the experts.
While true, your logic is also a blatant case of "whaboutism".
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Sherab Rigdrol
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Sherab Rigdrol »

Ehh, this letter has little to do with Aung San Suu Kyi and was just another chance for DJKR to take a dump on westerners. He hates us so much yet benefits personally from our existence. The cognitive dissonance is mind boggling.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Nemo »

Grigoris wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:36 pm
Nemo wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:02 am So the country that just spent 6 trillion dollars killing 500,000 Muslims since 9/11 is very upset that some human rights were violated. You certainly are the experts.
While true, your logic is also a blatant case of "whaboutism".
I hate to quote the Bible but, "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Maybe the country that has killed 10 times as many Muslims and is still at war should fix itself before policing others?
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by PeterC »

Sherab Rigdrol wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:06 pm Ehh, this letter has little to do with Aung San Suu Kyi and was just another chance for DJKR to take a dump on westerners. He hates us so much yet benefits personally from our existence. The cognitive dissonance is mind boggling.
Agree. Honestly I find I don't really understand DJKr these days. The first time I came across him was when I read his book on the Uttaratantrashastra, which apart from being distributed free, was a really accessible, very thorough discussion of a relatively complex text. Humorous, and not particularly political. (At the outset he says something like, people who wear black polonecks and smoke french cigarettes need to read more about tathagatagharba, and hippies who believe in universal love need to read more about shunyata.) IIRC he has a short dialog at the end (it's edited from public teachings) with Matthieu Ricard on cultural differences in argumentation and logic, which showed little or none of these prejudices. It really helped my understanding of the text.

Some years later I went to a teaching of his, and it was the only teaching I've ever attended, by anyone, that I've left halfway through. It was about the Heart Sutra, but it quickly descended into a long diatribe against "modern society and lifestyle". In the interest of preserving the positive impression I had from reading his book, I left during a break and didn't return.

Maybe I'm just noticing it now, and it was always there, but it feels like this aspect of his...teachings is becoming more prominent. I find it hard to reconcile this with his being a very knowledgeable teacher with a genuine talent for explaining difficult topics.

Perhaps this is just a personal preference, but I don't need a Dharma teacher to tell me about "western culture", "modern society" and so forth - I know more about that than they ever will. I also don't need their opinions on politics, since I'm a lot better informed than they can be. What we need from a Dharma teacher is, well, the Dharma, and the Dharma is true whether it's in 500BC India, medieval TIbet or today; it doesn't need to be adapted or interpreted for modern life. But that's just my humble opinion.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by PeterC »

Nemo wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:22 am
Grigoris wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:36 pm
Nemo wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:02 am So the country that just spent 6 trillion dollars killing 500,000 Muslims since 9/11 is very upset that some human rights were violated. You certainly are the experts.
While true, your logic is also a blatant case of "whaboutism".
I hate to quote the Bible but, "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Maybe the country that has killed 10 times as many Muslims and is still at war should fix itself before policing others?
I think you don't fully understand the meaning of "whataboutism". We say that the treatment of the Rohingya is wrong. You say, yes but what about some other bad thing that some entity you're associated with did in the past. Even if that thing were bad, and even if you were somehow associated with it, it does not prevent anyone from condemning the treatment of the Rohingya. If Kim Jongun were to turn up on this board saying that the treatment of the Rohingya was wrong, we would be surprised, but we wouldn't disagree with him on that point. (We might have a few other things to say to him, though.)

So I hope you're not accusing anyone on this board of engaging in wholesale slaughter of Muslims, or of representing a country that has done that, because that would be absurd. In any case, not everyone here is from the US, if that even were relevant to the discussion, which it's not.
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Re: DJKR letter to Aung San Suu Kyi

Post by Malcolm »

Nemo wrote: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:22 am
Grigoris wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:36 pm
Nemo wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:02 am So the country that just spent 6 trillion dollars killing 500,000 Muslims since 9/11 is very upset that some human rights were violated. You certainly are the experts.
While true, your logic is also a blatant case of "whaboutism".
I hate to quote the Bible but, "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Maybe the country that has killed 10 times as many Muslims and is still at war should fix itself before policing others?
Irrelevant to the present discussion.
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