What is magic?

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Aemilius
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What is magic?

Post by Aemilius » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:02 pm

Here is a new guy making dozens of impossible tricks



Criss Angel has previously explained how some of his levitation tricks are done, but that explanation doesn't cover everything he has done, like this one

svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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well wisher
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Re: What is magic?

Post by well wisher » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Hahaha very entertaining to watch! :smile:

But in our modern age of mass digital "special effects", very common in many movies,
it becomes very easy to doubt the autnenicity of those magic tricks; or any proposed miracles for that matter.
Unless you have real live audiences (who are strangers), or personally experienced it yourself in real life.

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Aemilius
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Aemilius » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:29 pm

That is true. The New guy seems to be doing it in live surroundings. Some of his tricks have been done before, at least something that is in principle similar, like the things appearing from a laptop has been done before by a chinese magician (forget his name now, but he has been in the Fool Us! by Penn & Teller). Therefore there are also the Street magic -series of David Blaine, and all the live shows that there are. And still some people go to great lengths trying "explain" everything.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

haha
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Re: What is magic?

Post by haha » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:44 pm

What is magic?

It is an art of depiction. Because one shows right hand, then complete his/her dirty work with left. lol

DharmaN00b
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Re: What is magic?

Post by DharmaN00b » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:46 am

IMO ThIS: :woohoo:



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SunWuKong
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Re: What is magic?

Post by SunWuKong » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:23 am

"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

DharmaN00b
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Re: What is magic?

Post by DharmaN00b » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:47 pm

:thanks:

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Yavana
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Yavana » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:27 am

Vidya games. The "Vidya" is right there in the name.



The magic stops around 1:20. (^ A holy space cow. 🐂🙏)

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Aemilius
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Aemilius » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:42 am

There is a nice levitation here at 3min 56s.
Performed by an english magician called Dynamo.
In Kevaddha Sutta Buddha says that belief in miracles doesn't amount much at all, and that the only real miracle is when someone's mind changes from an evil path onto a good path, onto a virtuous path.
The magical miracles show that the laws of physics can be transcended, but then many people refuse to accept this kind of phenomena. If this is a "trick" how does he do it?

svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Grigoris
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:56 am

Aemilius wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:42 am
The magical miracles show that the laws of physics can be transcended...
If you are a child, simpleton, or easily impressed.

They are magic TRICKS, not miracles. They are not called tricks for nothing.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Simon E.
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Simon E. » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:05 am

Of COURSE it’s a trick. Dynamo freely admis that. He has never claimed to be actually doing the things he appears to be doing. My own favourite is when he “walks on water”.. it’s very clever.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

tkp67
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Re: What is magic?

Post by tkp67 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:49 am

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:56 am
Aemilius wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:42 am
The magical miracles show that the laws of physics can be transcended...
If you are a child, simpleton, or easily impressed.

They are magic TRICKS, not miracles. They are not called tricks for nothing.
My dear Grigoris

Could the same mechanism upon which esoteric practices work be the same mechanisms "magic" works on? i.e. pushing the boundaries of established perception to open up new doors of perception.

This isn't to infer they are breaking the laws of physics but rather crafting believable delusion because they understand the minds capacity to do so, which in my mind only underlines the necessity to practice of Buddhism.

The mindscape of Alan Moore is a great documentary where he explains how integrated "magic" as an element to make his art more dimensional, poignant and to convey much deeper meaning than what appears on the surface.

Personally I don't think intelligence necessary equates to an innate ability to dispel delusion so I wonder if considering people who suffer delusion as children or simpleton is as productive as addressing the fact that delusional belief is the true culprit, which IMHO is deserving of compassion not necessarily admonishment although I would be absolutely lying if I told you I have always possessed this type of patience years prior.

I hope this does not come off as offensive for none is intended. Personally I have a fair amount of experience "untangling" my own delusions and it has made me keen to the difficulty they pose so it conjures a different reaction from me at this point in my life.

tkp67
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Re: What is magic?

Post by tkp67 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:01 pm

Magic exploits sublime psychological mechanisms which evoke belief so strong it acts as a reality for people

that is magic and in that way it is VERY real and dangerous

it is an archaic practice akin to social engineering

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Grigoris
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:05 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:49 am
Could the same mechanism upon which esoteric practices work be the same mechanisms "magic" works on? i.e. pushing the boundaries of established perception to open up new doors of perception.
No. There is a difference between magic and illusion.

In Greek magic is called μαγεία, whereas magic tricks are referred to as ταχυδακτυλουργία. The second term translates as "fast fingers". ;)

This is not to say that there us no such thing as magic, but the people in the videos are not working magic.
Personally I don't think intelligence necessary equates to an innate ability to dispel delusion
Discernment is one of the qulaities of intelligence, as is rational analysis. Both are necessary to overcome delusion and illusion.
...which IMHO is deserving of compassion not necessarily admonishment...
I am stating the cause of belief in magic tricks, it is not an admonishment, it is a statement of fact.

One would need to be a simpleton to believe that youtube magicians are anything but tricksters. To believe that the reactions of the people in the videos are anything but staged. Etc...

Let's not confound siddhi with trickery, as the OP is trying to do.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:09 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:01 pm
Magic exploits sublime psychological mechanisms which evoke belief so strong it acts as a reality for people

that is magic and in that way it is VERY real and dangerous

it is an archaic practice akin to social engineering
I believe there is a difference between believing something is true and something actually being true.

It takes a serious amount of realisation to combine the two (making belief and objective reality, or more correctly a collective subjective reality, come together).

True magic is being able to take away the mirrors, video editing, actors, hand waving, etc... and having the outcome still remain.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

tkp67
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Re: What is magic?

Post by tkp67 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:13 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:05 pm
tkp67 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:49 am
Could the same mechanism upon which esoteric practices work be the same mechanisms "magic" works on? i.e. pushing the boundaries of established perception to open up new doors of perception.
No. There is a difference between magic and illusion.

In Greek magic is called μαγεία, whereas magic tricks are referred to as ταχυδακτυλουργία. The second term translates as "fast fingers".

This is not to say that there us no such thing as magic, but the people in the videos are not working magic.
Personally I don't think intelligence necessary equates to an innate ability to dispel delusion
Discernment is one of the qulaities of intelligence, as is rational analysis. Both are necessary to overcome delusion and illusion.
...which IMHO is deserving of compassion not necessarily admonishment...
I am stating the cause of belief in magic tricks, it is not an admonishment, it is a statement of fact.

One would need to be a simpleton to believe that youtube magicians are anything but tricksters. To believe that the reactions of the people in the videos are anything but staged. Etc...

Let's not confound siddhi with trickery, as the OP is trying to do.
TBH I did not expect anything but an articulate answer and I received just that thank you.

I was ignorant to the differential I wonder it that extends to the OP? :shrug:

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jake
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Re: What is magic?

Post by jake » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:17 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:56 am
They are magic TRICKS, not miracles. They are not called tricks for nothing.

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KathyLauren
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Re: What is magic?

Post by KathyLauren » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:36 pm

Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy

Simon E.
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Re: What is magic?

Post by Simon E. » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:43 pm

You mean advanced technology does not follow the laws of physics?
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

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KathyLauren
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Re: What is magic?

Post by KathyLauren » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:52 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:43 pm
You mean advanced technology does not follow the laws of physics?
No. Clarke's Third Law does not say that advanced technology IS magic. He is saying that magic is simply technology that is more advanced than we can explain. The knowledge level of the audience is the main variable in deciding if a particular technology is considered magic or not.

To a scientist, which Clarke was, nothing is outside of the laws of physics. There may be physics we can't explain YET, which we would consider magic until we understand it.

Om mani padme h um
Kathy

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