So, you read pirated books?

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Queequeg
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So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 am

The next time you read a book that you download off the internet...

consider this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/opin ... iracy.html
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

jake
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by jake » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:57 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 am
The next time you read a book that you download off the internet...

consider this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/opin ... iracy.html
Thanks for the link. Great article and reminder of the importance of purchasing Dharma books. One of my favorite non-profits, Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR) pushes the idea of the "Artistic Freedom Voucher" wherein individuals receive a tax credit for contributing, say, 100 dollars to a programme that artists/authors register for and are then supported with a yearly salary with the work they produce having limited or no copyright. http://cepr.net/documents/publications/ip_2003_11.pdf Has the details.

I think this is a serious issue, particularly for those of us trying to see Dharma books printed on some of the less popular topics (in my case, Shingon).

humble.student
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by humble.student » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:16 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 am
The next time you read a book that you download off the internet...

consider this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/opin ... iracy.html
says the man posting the article behind a paywall!

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:13 pm

humble.student wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:16 am
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 am
The next time you read a book that you download off the internet...

consider this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/opin ... iracy.html
says the man posting the article behind a paywall!
Are you assuming I don't have a subscription? I do.
I believe everyone gets 10 free articles a month. If journalism is important to you, consider a subscription to your local paper.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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justsit
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by justsit » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:39 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:13 pm
I believe everyone gets 10 free articles a month. If journalism is important to you, consider a subscription to your local paper.
Yes, that's true, but no free articles if you use private browsing mode. My local paper I can read online, 10 free articles/day.

I'd love to have a print subscription to the NYT, even just the Sunday edition, but they will not deliver to my area; I can't even get a mail subscription. They used to have it at the local convenience store, but that went away a few years ago.
And I only live 150 miles from NYC - but it's a red zone. Sigh.

humble.student
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by humble.student » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:13 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:13 pm
humble.student wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:16 am
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 am
The next time you read a book that you download off the internet...

consider this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/opin ... iracy.html
says the man posting the article behind a paywall!
Are you assuming I don't have a subscription? I do.
I believe everyone gets 10 free articles a month. If journalism is important to you, consider a subscription to your local paper.
No, I was assuming you did have a subscription. I thought there was a certain irony in recommending an article one must pay to read for the benefit of those who won't (or can't) pay for the books they download online. I don't read the NYT and I don't know why the article is blocked for me, probably an IP issue: someone else nearby is reading it, probably.

I do think the issue is interesting in any case, and a Buddhist take on the subject would be most welcome - leaving aside the simplistic black & white "don't break the law" approach.

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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by jake » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:47 pm

If you reside in the US then you likely have access to the NYTimes and other major US newspapers (paper and electronic versions) via your local public library. At most locations in many states I've visited if you're on their wifi you can access it without any trouble. Many other libraries have agreements for accessing the NYTimes via their website or some other mechanism. I really suggest you give them a call or visit, they offer an incredible number of services.

Of course, this also holds true for nearly any Dharma book one might want but can't afford. Inter-library loans are an amazing thing. (Again, in the US).

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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:54 pm

My library has been able to get any Dharma book I’ve ever requested through Interlibrary loan.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

-Lokavipatti Sutta

jake
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by jake » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:07 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:54 pm
My library has been able to get any Dharma book I’ve ever requested through Interlibrary loan.
Indeed. I just discovered my home state's library system has free access to a language learning system the US government uses, teaching dozens and dozens of languages including Mongolian, Dakota, and Tuvan. Craziest thing is it's a deep red state.

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Matt J
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Matt J » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:14 pm

I also haven’t read the article but I think the upshot is, if you like books, then don’t pirate. Piracy is destroying the book industry— similar to what happened to music.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:16 pm

Agree with the suggestions above - the public library is one of the greatest institutions in the US and absolutely ethically sound, in terms of civics and Dharma.

BTW, correction - in the US, the NYT offers 5 free articles per month. They reduced it. Its not IP based, its browser based, and you have to accept cookies. Private browsing will cause you to be blocked.
justsit wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:39 pm
I'd love to have a print subscription to the NYT, even just the Sunday edition, but they will not deliver to my area; I can't even get a mail subscription. They used to have it at the local convenience store, but that went away a few years ago.
And I only live 150 miles from NYC - but it's a red zone. Sigh.
Well, they do have digital subscriptions available for pretty cheap, but there is something unique to sitting down with that hefty Sunday paper and working through it with a cup of coffee.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

humble.student
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by humble.student » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:25 pm

Matt J wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:14 pm
I also haven’t read the article but I think the upshot is, if you like books, then don’t pirate. Piracy is destroying the book industry— similar to what happened to music.
Let me rephrase that a little more accurately: the book industry is destroying the book industry, similar to what happened to music.

Replace "x industry" with "greed" and it will be even more accurate.

Academic publishing is a monopolistic and fraudulent enterprise. The music industry was a lot worse, and furthermore failed to keep up with the times and adapt to the new technologies in time. None of this is disputed, to the best of my knowledge.

Naturally, I do not condone piracy of Dharma books, in fact, I believe it is crucial to support small presses and Dharma publishers in order to ensure that these precious works are translated and published and made available for the foreseeable future.

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:26 pm

Abe Lincoln is credited with the saying, "A lawyers time and advice are his stock in trade."

You wouldn't expect a gardener to mow a lawn for free, a plumber to fix a leak for free, a doctor to operate on you for free... etc. So why do people expect writers to work for free?

Copyright is a way for writers to secure compensation for their work. If writers don't get paid, we don't get well written, thoughtful stuff to read. We'll just have to settle for typo riddled tweets from internet personalities or screeds from fellows turning their inability to get laid, and general failure at life in the early 21st century, into a philosophy.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:28 pm

humble.student wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:25 pm
Let me rephrase that a little more accurately: the book industry is destroying the book industry, similar to what happened to music.
Nonsense. That's not what is killing the publishing industry. Those compensation models were in place for decades with professional writers able to make middle class livings.

Piracy is by far the biggest force killing publishing.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Nemo
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Nemo » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:33 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 am
The next time you read a book that you download off the internet...

consider this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/opin ... iracy.html
Copyright was originally a way to make textbooks affordable for schools. It limited the maximum prices publishers could charge.

You don't see the problem with knowledge being profit based? This is most clearly shown in scientific journals. Where the publisher takes 100% of the thousands in annual fees for access and gives the researchers nothing. The current system will never meet human needs. It will only serve profit. Wouldn't translators having tenure at research institutions and releasing their works into the public domain be exponentially better?

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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by pemachophel » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:41 pm

For 30 years I was the acquisition and copy editor for Blue Poppy Press. We published 3-4 new titles per year (in the field of acupuncture/Chinese medicine) and kept 100 books in print at any one time. Many of our books were translations from Chinese or compendia of materials translated from Chinese. Many of our books were standard textbooks at acupuncture and Chinese medicine colleges all over the world. Then along came digital pirating. Mostly students but also foreigners (typically Russians and Chinese) claiming poverty would scan and either sell our books on CD to their fellow students at a fraction of the price or simply post them on-line for free. Suffice it to say that the company I used to work for hasn't published a new book in 7-8 years with no plans to in the future. They scrapped publishing in exchange for selling acupuncture needles. So I can tell you absolutely for sure that pirating has caused at least some publishers to stop publishing.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Nemo wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:33 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:54 am
The next time you read a book that you download off the internet...

consider this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/15/opin ... iracy.html
Copyright was originally a way to make textbooks affordable for schools. It limited the maximum prices publishers could charge.

You don't see the problem with knowledge being profit based? This is most clearly shown in scientific journals. Where the publisher takes 100% of the thousands in annual fees for access and gives the researchers nothing. The current system will never meet human needs. It will only serve profit. Wouldn't translators having tenure at research institutions and releasing their works into the public domain be exponentially better?
I don't know if your account of the origin of copyright is true. I doubt it strongly.

Regardless, copyright evolved into a property right that gives the author of a work the right to make a living off of their labor. As for your insinuation that publishers are taking in unscrupulous profits, that it laughable.

Your opinions about academic publishers is laughable and totally uninformed. There's no one in academic publishing making a killing. The fees journals charge keep the lights on and pay the salaries of a few staff if they are doing even that well. The researchers are happy to get published, but who is going to pay them out of what pot of money? The authors generally have day jobs at universities, commercial R&d, think tanks, etc.

Now we can talk about the hollowing of the academy - that's a different story.

Anyway, they've always been writing research articles for each other, passing them around by hand if no journals are around to publish them.

I believe people need to make a living. $20 for a book is not prohibitive and a library card is free.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:06 pm

humble.student wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:25 pm
Academic publishing is a monopolistic and fraudulent enterprise. The music industry was a lot worse, and furthermore failed to keep up with the times and adapt to the new technologies in time. None of this is disputed, to the best of my knowledge.
How is it monopolistic exactly?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

humble.student
Posts: 177
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by humble.student » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:15 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:06 pm
humble.student wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:25 pm
Academic publishing is a monopolistic and fraudulent enterprise. The music industry was a lot worse, and furthermore failed to keep up with the times and adapt to the new technologies in time. None of this is disputed, to the best of my knowledge.
How is it monopolistic exactly?
Because we are dealing with only a handful of conglomerates that own both publishing houses and said journals, that's how. Scholars - and librarians - have been raging against this for years.

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:57 pm

humble.student wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:15 pm
Because we are dealing with only a handful of conglomerates that own both publishing houses and said journals, that's how. Scholars - and librarians - have been raging against this for years.
This sounds very foreign to me, and I'm surrounded by scholars who are publishing or perishing. Sources I could investigate for myself?
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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