So, you read pirated books?

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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg »

Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:15 pm I think the oligarchs are driving the collapse. One an educated democratic world could very easily have avoided 3 decades ago.
That's Illuminati level conspiracy theory. It would actually be reassuring if there were people intentionally driving things - that would mean a change of plans could change the outcomes. Supposing the Illuminati are real, they had no idea the trajectory we have been on would lead to climate change and the concatenating effects that are coming, and without that knowledge, there is no way they could have planned THIS. The real driver is illustrated at the center of the wheel of life:

Image

Those three poisons. Everyone grasping at pleasure and avoiding pain, whatever the psychopathic means.

The solution is straight forward, too. Education. But its got to be something more than just school systems. In the West, the Church filled a critical role in guiding morality, presenting a "big picture" as well as a local and universal community (in the sense, one could travel and go to a Catholic Church anywhere and find a familiar environment and community) that was critical in constructing meaning and a grounded sense of self. The Church was behind labor movements, and the civil rights movements. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of the Church, from Christian teachings to its corruptions at every level, but it also fulfilled the highest needs of societies. We've lost the Church and now we're left with an atomized population that has no sense of collective identity. People grasp at totems disseminated by for profit outfits that are basically bereft of any deeper meaning - instead of Jesus, Apostles, Saints, people are obsessed with Marvel Super Heroes. In India, trucks are adorned with Hindu symbolism. Here people slap Decepticon and Punisher stickers on their cars. Instead of Revivals and costumed processions celebrating patron saints, we have Comicon. If ideologies are your thing, we have political parties.

People at this time don't want the medicine. And there are fewer and fewer offering it. Its a vicious cycle. People just want to circle jerk and eat cotton candy without consequence, and there's no one trying to steer them away from that.

The mythology of the Degenerate Age is 100% applicable at this time. All we're left of the higher teachings is the symbols that fewer and fewer understand. Of course Bhaisajyaguru can't heal anyone - the gestalt framework, the psycho-socio-physical mandala - in which his blessings are effective simply does not exist anymore except in ruins. As the teachings say, eventually, even the symbols will be lost. At that time, humanity will start the long climb back up rebuilding based on direct knowledge of the contours of survival. That direct knowledge of survival will give rise to a moral civilization, and when they are ripe, Maitreya will appear among those people to open the Buddha knowledge to them.

The mythology also suggests we'll have at least another golden age when the Great Dharma will spread before the light goes out completely in advance of Maitreya's advent...
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg »

pemachophel wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:00 pm "When karma ripens, even I am powerless."
Too true.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Nemo
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Nemo »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:18 pm
Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:15 pm I think the oligarchs are driving the collapse. One an educated democratic world could very easily have avoided 3 decades ago.
That's Illuminati level conspiracy theory. It would actually be reassuring if there were people intentionally driving things - that would mean a change of plans could change the outcomes.
Ya, it's not like there are billionaire activists undercutting democratic reform.

Oh wait,...
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article ... ve-america

How many countries has the CIA destroyed in the last 40 years to protect American economic interests? I know of 2 for sure because I helped destroy them with my own hands but really there is at least a dozen. They pay well and I have a sweet pension. More than those nerdy academics. That's for sure.
Last edited by Nemo on Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tkp67
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by tkp67 »

But a few bad apples can ruin a bunch.

is there a middle way?
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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg »

Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:08 pm
Queequeg wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:18 pm
Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:15 pm I think the oligarchs are driving the collapse. One an educated democratic world could very easily have avoided 3 decades ago.
That's Illuminati level conspiracy theory. It would actually be reassuring if there were people intentionally driving things - that would mean a change of plans could change the outcomes.
Ya, it's not like there are billionaire activists undercutting democratic reform.

Oh wait,...
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article ... ve-america

How many countries has the CIA destroyed in the last 40 years to protect American economic interests? I know of 2 for sure because I helped destroy them with my own hands but really there is at least a dozen.
But they're not driving the collapse in the sense of this is an intentional outcome they are working toward. They're just grasping, the same as everyone else, the difference being the power they wield is of a different scale. They're corrupt rulers... one of the oldest stories.

Again - its described at the center of the Wheel.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Nemo
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Nemo »

tkp67 wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:10 pm But a few bad apples can ruin a bunch.

is there a middle way?
Maybe individuals should not be given so much power. Do you need a bazooka to protect your house? Perhaps a small nuclear device to scare off your neighbors? A billion dollars is a weaponized amount of money.
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tkp67
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by tkp67 »

Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:12 pm
tkp67 wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:10 pm But a few bad apples can ruin a bunch.

is there a middle way?
Maybe individuals should not be given so much power. Do you need a bazooka to protect your house? Perhaps a small nuclear device to scare off your neighbors? A billion dollars is a weaponized amount of money.
I will not argue that it seems that the collective of humanity has this nature that requires at times that some subset of humanity be challenged. It often seems to inspire diametric opposition that pushes back against the envelope.

However the envelope is still the collective of humanity.

The middle way is a resolution of equanimity.

As stated I don't have the answer in this scenario, I just know what it should look like. perhaps that would be better stated as what attributes it should posses but I was feeling poetic if is offensive I will gladly amend.
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Nemo
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Nemo »

Queequeg wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:11 pm
Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:08 pm
Queequeg wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:18 pm

That's Illuminati level conspiracy theory. It would actually be reassuring if there were people intentionally driving things - that would mean a change of plans could change the outcomes.
Ya, it's not like there are billionaire activists undercutting democratic reform.

Oh wait,...
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article ... ve-america

How many countries has the CIA destroyed in the last 40 years to protect American economic interests? I know of 2 for sure because I helped destroy them with my own hands but really there is at least a dozen.
But they're not driving the collapse in the sense of this is an intentional outcome they are working toward. They're just grasping, the same as everyone else, the difference being the power they wield is of a different scale. They're corrupt rulers... one of the oldest stories.

Again - its described at the center of the Wheel.
Or maybe some individuals have too much power and are gaming the system to their advantage. I'm sure factory owners using child labour or running exploitative company stores were not meaning to be evil. But we had no choice but to ban child labour and form unions. We didn't say kids can only work 4 hours a day. We didn't compromise. We said this is right and deal with it. They did and the world was a better place for everyone.

Describing child labour or slavery as just the way the world works would be considered creepy in hindsight.
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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

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Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:47 pm Or maybe some individuals have too much power and are gaming the system to their advantage. I'm sure factory owners using child labour or running exploitative company stores were not meaning to be evil. But we had no choice but to ban child labour and form unions. We didn't say kids can only work 4 hours a day. We didn't compromise. We said this is right and deal with it. They did and the world was a better place for everyone.

Describing child labour or slavery as just the way the world works would be considered creepy in hindsight.
I'm losing confidence that you're not just using this discussion as podium to make your pronouncements...
Queequeg wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:11 pm But they're not driving the collapse in the sense of this is an intentional outcome they are working toward. They're just grasping, the same as everyone else, the difference being the power they wield is of a different scale. They're corrupt rulers... one of the oldest stories.
Emphasis added.

Surprise! We agree.

And you outline the practical steps that can be taken now: "form unions." Right, take collective action. Maybe we can avert the collapse. Just maybe.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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tkp67
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by tkp67 »

Sadly the golden age of piracy was such that none every had the chance to steal moby dick even if they couldn't read.
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Nemo
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Nemo »

Sorry Queequeg, I get a bit excited when I have a chance to undo some of the wrongs I did in the world. I got fed up being poor and sold out hard to the state security apparatus. It's a profoundly compromised system that still has some decent democratic bones if we could ever get to them. Many of the people inside wish they had the power to do good. They need hordes of revolting peasants banging on the gates to get that permission.
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Queequeg
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Re: So, you read pirated books?

Post by Queequeg »

Nemo wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:27 pm Sorry Queequeg, I get a bit excited when I have a chance to undo some of the wrongs I did in the world. I got fed up being poor and sold out hard to the state security apparatus. It's a profoundly compromised system that still has some decent democratic bones if we could ever get to them. Many of the people inside wish they had the power to do good. They need hordes of revolting peasants banging on the gates to get that permission.
And I apologize for my obtuseness and maybe chiding you a little harshly - it was personal to you because I figured we have some history and are on friendly terms. It was meant in a friendly, sh*t talking kind of way. I think we're both more or less on the same page... I'm probably holding out hope you're not as right as you might be.

I've got my pots and pans ready to make some noise!
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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