If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

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BeattheLordsofKarma
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If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by BeattheLordsofKarma » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:35 pm

I know this topic is polemic and is avoided most of the time because siddhis are considered a waste of time/energy. I will probably not get answers, but I wanted to ask that question.

Books like visuddhimagga, yoga sutras and even kundalini yoga from Sivananda teach how to develop them/awake them. If siddhis are considered an obstacle, then why sacred books teach how to show how to get them?

Also, why is concentration related with siddhis?.

Why Patanjali writes that drugs/certain plants can awake siddhis?. Aren't drugs the opposite to concentration?

Sorry for my english, not my first language. And thanks in advance.

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Miroku
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by Miroku » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:58 pm

Yeah, but those texts are not Buddhist.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Simon E.
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by Simon E. » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:05 pm

And siddhis are not forbidden. Nor necessarily a waste of time..but many Buddhist teachers see the active pursuit of them as a potential obstacle.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:53 pm

Same reason that if my seven year old son asks if he can cook, we make him stick to macaroni and cheese. If I ask him to go cook me a 3 course Indian meal or some such, the results would be disastrous - even if I gave him a recipe book. In fact, the recipe book might make things worse.
His welcoming
& rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

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pemachophel
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by pemachophel » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:21 pm

No way is the attainment of siddhis forbidden in Vajrayana Buddhism. However, we just recently discussed this issue in another thread recently, and that was at least the second time we've been over this territory.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

BeattheLordsofKarma
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by BeattheLordsofKarma » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:24 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:21 pm
No way is the attainment of siddhis forbidden in Vajrayana Buddhism. However, we just recently discussed this issue in another thread recently, and that was at least the second time we've been over this territory.
Might a get a link to that topic?
Miroku wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:58 pm
Yeah, but those texts are not Buddhist.
Are those texts hinduists, then? I appologize for confusing and thinking they were buddhists.

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Miroku
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by Miroku » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:48 pm

BeattheLordsofKarma wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:24 pm
Are those texts hinduists, then? I appologize for confusing and thinking they were buddhists.
Visuddhimagga is probably the only buddhist source you have cited there. It is okay, dude.

Anyway as Pema has said, siddhis are not forbidden. There are actually many cases of some form of a siddhi being received from Buddhist practice. Its just that rarely it is deliberately seeked out. The greatest siddhi is love for all beings and from that mundane siddhis naturaly arise.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

BeattheLordsofKarma
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by BeattheLordsofKarma » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:35 pm

Miroku wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:48 pm
BeattheLordsofKarma wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:24 pm
Are those texts hinduists, then? I appologize for confusing and thinking they were buddhists.
Visuddhimagga is probably the only buddhist source you have cited there. It is okay, dude.

Anyway as Pema has said, siddhis are not forbidden. There are actually many cases of some form of a siddhi being received from Buddhist practice. Its just that rarely it is deliberately seeked out. The greatest siddhi is love for all beings and from that mundane siddhis naturaly arise.
I see. As far as I know, siddhis could delay (?) your progress and it could boost your ego. I hope it makes sense.

I read about siddhis long time ago. I had some premonitory dreams (nothing important, simple stuff that happened the next day) and I became interested in this kind of stuff.

Also, could you explain me why is concentration related with the siddhis?. Most of the books and info I've read about them say that concentration is what makes siddhis possible, not meditation per se.

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Miroku
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Re: If siddhis are forbidden, why some texts teach how to achieve them?

Post by Miroku » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:41 pm

BeattheLordsofKarma wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:35 pm
I see. As far as I know, siddhis could delay (?) your progress and it could boost your ego. I hope it makes sense.

I read about siddhis long time ago. I had some premonitory dreams (nothing important, simple stuff that happened the next day) and I became interested in this kind of stuff.

Also, could you explain me why is concentration related with the siddhis?. Most of the books and info I've read about them say that concentration is what makes siddhis possible, not meditation per se.
I unfortunately cannot really answer your questions. :smile: I don't know quite frankly.

There is a real danger of siddhis hindering one's practice and clouding the way to enlightenment. There are stories of yogis doing crazy stuff to get rid of their siddhis as they were just a hindrance. But sometimes siddhis are useful or arise spontaneously. IT is just an experience. The point is not doing it FOR the siddhis, but for the ultimate siddhi of enlightenment.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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