Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

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Mantrik
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Mantrik » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:46 pm

I wonder if any have posited the view that there is a middle way which may find some favour here?
Perhaps some phenomena are merely cyclical and natural, whilst others may indeed be due to human activity.

The lines become very blurred when we examine the entirely natural effect of cattle living their natural lives.......... alive entirely at the behest of mankind.

I have no way of proving causality, but would really like to know, from an objective source, what can be done to improve the planet for our descendants. The real issue here, I'm afraid, is that the pundits disagree, leaving us to decide if a rational response to the likes of Greta and her cause should be praise or pity, and if so, whether the two should be conflated or separate.
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Nemo
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Nemo » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:03 am

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:46 pm
The real issue here, I'm afraid, is that the pundits disagree, leaving us to decide if a rational response to the likes of Greta and her cause should be praise or pity, and if so, whether the two should be conflated or separate.
Image
What disagreements are you talking about? There is none in the scientific community.
Cigarettes cause cancer.
Vaccines prevent disease.
Carbon emissions are warming the planet.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:18 am

well wisher wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:12 pm
Does the discussion of climate change include aspects about pollution and its harmful effects to all living beings?
I think it's easier to keep the discussion on topic if we have separate threads for pollution, plastic waste, etc.
Start one if you want to.
Or come over to DWE :smile: where this sort of discussion is core business instead of a side issue.
Because the proof regarding the pollution is actually quite irrefutable, and is actually something we all can easily observe and prove first hand, even simply out on the streets. Eg. plastic & biodegradable wastes with reduced usable & livable land for the common folks, toxic air pollution from cars commute/industrial manufacturing/power generation/constructions.. etc., toxic water due to toxic chemical pollution and the same industrial sources ... .etc. All these can end all life as we know it on earth (hence the extinction rebellion), it the current industrial trends and the current big-corporate rule economy model just simply continues its course.
Agreed.

:namaste:
Kim

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:23 am

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:46 pm
... would really like to know, from an objective source, what can be done to improve the planet for our descendants. ...
The Drawdown project - https://www.drawdown.org - has done the sums on all possible ways of reducing atmospheric CO2 and minimising global warming, and has ranked the solutions - https://www.drawdown.org/solutions.

Most of the other sustainability problems we face have fairly obvious (although not always easy) solutions.

:namaste:
Kim

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:53 pm

Tashi delek,

Planting more than 500 billion trees could remove around 25 percent of existing carbon from the atmosphere, a new study has found. What's more: there's enough space to do it. :twothumbsup:

Also fossil energy should go down or should be replaced, otherwise there is no satisfactory result.

Brasil and that brutal president Jair Bolsonaro, he must be persecuted for murder.
Finally all destroyers of Nature must be persecuted, we need a new law.

===================

https://www.ecowatch.com/climate-change ... belltitem4
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Queequeg
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Queequeg » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:34 pm

I read about the tree planting solution... My understanding is is that it's not a long term solution because at some point it will max out. It can possibly be a short term way to mitigate carbon emissions but real efforts to get off fossil fuels is really the only long term solution. It's very straightforward.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
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Tenma
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Tenma » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:49 pm


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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:32 pm

Tashi delek,

Below some practical advises how to start.
Yes we can "know" it very well on paper, but there is needed also work to do which has priority.

Also eating meat should be slowed down / reduced as support.
Take your bowls / bags /, with you to the supermarket to reduce plastics

So we have to bring personal sacrifices as much as possible.
The bucket is filled by the drops of water, little by little.


=====================

The best meditation is no meditation

Simon E.
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Simon E. » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:51 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:18 am
well wisher wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:12 pm
Does the discussion of climate change include aspects about pollution and its harmful effects to all living beings?
I think it's easier to keep the discussion on topic if we have separate threads for pollution, plastic waste, etc.
Start one if you want to.
Or come over to DWE :smile: where this sort of discussion is core business instead of a side issue.
Because the proof regarding the pollution is actually quite irrefutable, and is actually something we all can easily observe and prove first hand, even simply out on the streets. Eg. plastic & biodegradable wastes with reduced usable & livable land for the common folks, toxic air pollution from cars commute/industrial manufacturing/power generation/constructions.. etc., toxic water due to toxic chemical pollution and the same industrial sources ... .etc. All these can end all life as we know it on earth (hence the extinction rebellion), it the current industrial trends and the current big-corporate rule economy model just simply continues its course.
Agreed.

:namaste:
Kim
I am not a denier. But I think that is a good idea.
“The difference between us and Tara is that she knows she doesn’t exist”.

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Tlalok
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Tlalok » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Below some practical advises how to start.
Yes we can "know" it very well on paper, but there is needed also work to do which has priority.

Also eating meat should be slowed down / reduced as support.
Take your bowls / bags /, with you to the supermarket to reduce plastics

So we have to bring personal sacrifices as much as possible.
The bucket is filled by the drops of water, little by little.


=====================

This is a wonderful start, Kaldrung. However, it means nothing unless our society moves away from fossil fuels immediately. We're all tiny motes in the eyes of the massive companies contributing to the carbon emissions. Its a foolish move to reduce the climate crisis to individuals when a single company is causing millions of times more emissions than any individual ever could. We need to make a world where its impossible to use fossil fuels, and we need to do it now.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:55 pm

Tlalok wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:32 pm
Tashi delek,

Below some practical advises how to start.
Yes we can "know" it very well on paper, but there is needed also work to do which has priority.

Also eating meat should be slowed down / reduced as support.
Take your bowls / bags /, with you to the supermarket to reduce plastics

So we have to bring personal sacrifices as much as possible.
The bucket is filled by the drops of water, little by little.


=====================

This is a wonderful start, Kaldrung. However, it means nothing unless our society moves away from fossil fuels immediately. We're all tiny motes in the eyes of the massive companies contributing to the carbon emissions. Its a foolish move to reduce the climate crisis to individuals when a single company is causing millions of times more emissions than any individual ever could. We need to make a world where its impossible to use fossil fuels, and we need to do it now.
Tashi delek T,

Yes it is a very good beginning of a great history on our planet.
It is for the first time that the whole world is coming together, with a collective feeling of power to the people. :applause:

Me too underlines the importance of diminishing fossil fuels AND nuclear energy.
Nuclear energy can also destroy human life on earth, see Fukushima, where the whole waste is dumped into the pacific.......
Fish from Japan and Canada are soon not more edible, this is real horror and difficult to clean.
Also the burried nuclear waste in salt mines and on the bottom of the oceans is a hard case.......

Agree we need authority to start with cleaning up the shit of the billionaires /stock exchange owners.
The whole stock exchange market has to be pulled down, because energy is a very profitable case.
Now the temperatures are higher in winter, the European energy suppliers raise the prices of gas and electricity, because they lose money.....
As a result the herd of consumers has to pay the bill, like always.

YES we have to make that world very soon where it is impossible to use fossil fuels and nuclear energy is not the alternative.
The best meditation is no meditation

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:51 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:55 pm
...
Me too underlines the importance of diminishing fossil fuels AND nuclear energy.
Nuclear energy can also destroy human life on earth, see Fukushima, where the whole waste is dumped into the pacific.......
...

YES we have to make that world very soon where it is impossible to use fossil fuels and nuclear energy is not the alternative.
Recently we had a whole thread - viewtopic.php?f=42&t=31474 - about whether nuclear power could be a significant part of our post-CO2 world, and the answer IMO is that it can't because it's too slow to build and too expensive - even if we didn't worry about its dangers. I posted more detail on the problems in a group of posts starting at viewtopic.php?f=42&t=31474&start=40#p499480

:coffee:
Kim

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:08 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:51 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:55 pm
...
Me too underlines the importance of diminishing fossil fuels AND nuclear energy.
Nuclear energy can also destroy human life on earth, see Fukushima, where the whole waste is dumped into the pacific.......
...

YES we have to make that world very soon where it is impossible to use fossil fuels and nuclear energy is not the alternative.
Recently we had a whole thread - viewtopic.php?f=42&t=31474 - about whether nuclear power could be a significant part of our post-CO2 world, and the answer IMO is that it can't because it's too slow to build and too expensive - even if we didn't worry about its dangers. I posted more detail on the problems in a group of posts starting at viewtopic.php?f=42&t=31474&start=40#p499480

:coffee:
Kim
Nuclear energy is senseless to discuss, because we all know it cannot function.
Prove. FUKUSHIMA and the rest which will follow soon due to leaks, age, etc. if we (the victims) cannot close them super fast.
Climate change is not only finishing the fossil fuels but also close very fast these nuclear bombs.
The best meditation is no meditation

Bundokji
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Re: Climate Change and Climate Skeptics/Deniers

Post by Bundokji » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:02 pm

tatpurusa wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:07 pm
OK. The question is: are those charts real and authentic or not. The source does not matter.
If you can prove they are fakes, allright, do it, one-by-one!!
I don't want to deviate from the main topic, but reducing the discussion about climate change to whether certain data are accurate or not can be one way of missing the point in my opinion. I would add that the accuracy or inaccuracy of the data does not necessarily say anything about the intentions of those who publish them from both sides of the debate.

One way to look at the whole issue differently is through risk perception. For instance, some people like to make regular health check ups regardless if they feel something wrong or not (to be always prepared) while others might not feel this necessary unless they have first hand experience of something wrong with their health. The former might think of the later as careless, while the later might think of the former as suffering from some sort of hypochondria. Both eventually are going to die.

In general, it is easier to see the risk of not take warning seriously, but more difficult to see and acknowledge the risk of solutions based on wrong diagnosis, and that wrong diagnosis happens all the time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical ... erica.html
The cleverest defenders of faith are its greatest enemies: for their subtleties engender doubt and stimulate the mind. -- Will Durant

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