What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Simon E.
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:44 pm

muni wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:06 pm
Yes, you are right.
I am asking for the paramedical and medical teams, who are testing, not for people in the street. Doctors are asking those of construction workers. These are also limited.

I was wondering somewhere people already helped regarding this shortage.
I take your point.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

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Norwegian
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:43 pm

"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

Snowbear
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Snowbear » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:39 pm

http://www.demiurge.technology/blog/dem ... oryId=4363
Viral latent Infection: COVID-19 can flexibly switch to the latent infection mode under the pressure of strong host immunity and/or during effective but non-curative treatments. COVID-19 can also switch back to the productive infection mode when the host immunity is weakened and/or the effective but non-curative treatments are ended, resulting in inevitable rebound and frequent reinfection among asymptomatic COVID-19 carriers.

Viral latent adversity: When effective but non-curative treatments switch COVID-19 to the asymptomatic latent infection mode, COVID-19 can still chronically disrupt systemic genome, proteome, ion, energy, and immune system homeostases by affecting the baseline activities of ACE2-expressing host cells in multiple organs over years. When the cumulative disruption of multi-level homeostases is sufficient to switch COVID-19 back to the symptomatic productive infection mode, COVID-19 can initiate an accelerate disease progression and trigger severe cytokine storms and fatal comorbidities.

Therefore, COVID-19 is an unprecedented coronavirus that causes both acute respiratory illnesses for symptomatic patients and chronic systemic disorders for asymptomatic carriers.

Effective but non-curative treatments or vaccines may induce a latent preservation of COVID-19 in patients instead of a complete eradication, and the adversity of latent COVID-19 will inevitably trigger a viral rebound, an accelerated progression, and an increased mortality rate.
Can someone translate this from medicalese? From what I think I'm understanding, it doesn't sound good.

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justsit
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by justsit » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:02 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:39 pm
http://www.demiurge.technology/blog/dem ... oryId=4363
Viral latent Infection: ...
Can someone translate this from medicalese? From what I think I'm understanding, it doesn't sound good.
Very very basically, the virus can hide in the body and remain dormant even in someone who has strong immunity and does not show symptoms, and can also hide if treatments are given that decrease symptoms, but they also don't actually cure the disease.

While the virus is hiding it can disrupt diverse metabolic functions that can cause chronic problems over a long time period, even in people that never showed symptoms of the disease.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Nemo, it's been a while since I've dealt with this stuff.

If I'm anywhere near correct, it's not good news. At all.

smcj
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by smcj » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm

The website says this is their AI computer conclusion.
Not authoritative.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:40 pm

This is being put forward only as hypothesis, if you read the full release it specifies that. Additionally this is a sort of "proof of concept" for their AI (creepily named, btw lol, what were they thinking). I have no idea how true or likely any of it is, but even with a very limited grasp of medical jargon I can tell this is not being presented as verified or even (at this point) verifiable.

It's also specifically about (I think) the possible fallout of using various anti-viral medications, so it is not just about how the virus might operate, but how it might operate when said treatments fail.

Probably best not to surf the web for random technical information like this and assume it means something yet.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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Sādhaka
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Sādhaka » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:48 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:39 pm
http://www.demiurge.

B1D6C2AD-53FE-4ADF-A672-936AB832C388.gif
B1D6C2AD-53FE-4ADF-A672-936AB832C388.gif (201.63 KiB) Viewed 1120 times


Edit:

Just saw that J.D. noticed it too:


Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:40 pm
...their AI (creepily named, btw lol, what were they thinking)

Norwegian
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:03 pm

smcj wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm
The website says this is their AI computer conclusion.
Not authoritative.
AI these days, used in a medical context, is surprisingly accurate.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... tudy-finds
https://smallcaps.com.au/new-research-f ... -diseases/

So sure, you want a human conclusion to an AI-based study in the end, but don't dismiss it entirely. The medical industry / health care is using AI more and more in its day to day work for support and help.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:11 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:03 pm
smcj wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm
The website says this is their AI computer conclusion.
Not authoritative.
AI these days, used in a medical context, is surprisingly accurate.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... tudy-finds
https://smallcaps.com.au/new-research-f ... -diseases/

So sure, you want a human conclusion to an AI-based study in the end, but don't dismiss it entirely. The medical industry / health care is using AI more and more in its day to day work for support and help.
I'm skeptical about a lot of the claims about research-specific AI, especially since many of them seem to come from researchers connected to the actual products. Things like the imaging-based AI mentioned in the second article above I can see. This is exactly how people talked about AI in the justice system a few years ago until everyone figured out that AI is more racist than people in many instances. Either way though, these results are not in any way being presented as authoritative information on COVID 19, as far as I can see - and are being put forth purely as a preliminary hypothesis and a way to test their AI.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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rory
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by rory » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:38 pm

Here is Nassim Nicholas Taleb (Black Swan professor of probability and Yaneer Bar-Yam (physicist dealing in complex systems) talking clearly about corona and explaining in easily understood language why it's not the same as the flu, the rapid rate of increase and why it's better to be proactive (panic) early. It's only 10 minutes. Taleb predicted this kind of thing in 2007 and on his twitter in January 2020 he counseled people to take precautions



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Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:35 am

justsit wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:02 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:39 pm
http://www.demiurge.technology/blog/dem ... oryId=4363
Viral latent Infection: ...
Can someone translate this from medicalese? From what I think I'm understanding, it doesn't sound good.
Very very basically, the virus can hide in the body and remain dormant even in someone who has strong immunity and does not show symptoms, and can also hide if treatments are given that decrease symptoms, but they also don't actually cure the disease.

While the virus is hiding it can disrupt diverse metabolic functions that can cause chronic problems over a long time period, even in people that never showed symptoms of the disease.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Nemo, it's been a while since I've dealt with this stuff.

If I'm anywhere near correct, it's not good news. At all.
That AI seems to think antivirals with PI3K inhibitors will be more effective than 1000$ a dose Remdesivir injections. Drug companies won't like that. If you want a cheap P13K inhibitor go to the health food store and buy a bottle of quercetin for 20$. It's absolutely harmless if it doesn't work and dirt cheap. It's mostly from old citrus rinds. Even scraping the white stuff from the peels would do in a pinch. It may even prevent infection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4728566/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6316301784

There are lots of worst case scenarios. I will wait and see.

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Virgo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Virgo » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:46 am

coronavirus-vaccine-1-1583169786.jpg
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Virgo

Snowbear
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Snowbear » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:44 pm


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justsit
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by justsit » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:50 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:44 pm
Here's the latest news: Once infected you could have COVID-19 virus FOR LIFE, warns expert
Clickbait - no rigorous scientific evidence presented.

Simon E.
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Simon E. » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:52 pm

Two notes of caution .
1) This is all at the moment speculative.
2). This report is being interpreted and reported through the Daily Express which is the U K equivalent of Fox News ..treat accordingly.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

Snowbear
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Snowbear » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:46 pm

justsit wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:50 pm
Snowbear wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:44 pm
Here's the latest news: Once infected you could have COVID-19 virus FOR LIFE, warns expert
Clickbait - no rigorous scientific evidence presented.
The idea that the virus hides out from the immune system and reinfects again seems to be circulating amidst cases of reinfection. The hypothesis is entirely plausible.

Simon E.
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Simon E. » Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:54 pm

There are certainly organisms that migrate and “hide”. The various varicella viruses are known to do this.
But at the moment most of the data is coming from the Chinese experience and there is not enough of it to reach more than tentative conclusions.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.

Snowbear
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Snowbear » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:13 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:54 pm
There are certainly organisms that migrate and “hide”. The various varicella viruses are known to do this.
But at the moment most of the data is coming from the Chinese experience and there is not enough of it to reach more than tentative conclusions.
I don't think anyone is pretending at more than tentative conclusions at this stage.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:15 pm

Snowbear wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:13 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:54 pm
There are certainly organisms that migrate and “hide”. The various varicella viruses are known to do this.
But at the moment most of the data is coming from the Chinese experience and there is not enough of it to reach more than tentative conclusions.
I don't think anyone is pretending at more than tentative conclusions at this stage.
It’s not even that ‘informed speculation’ would be more accurate.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Virgo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Virgo » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:35 pm

'Insane and Cruel': Watch Nurse Rip Question on How US Can Afford to Make Coronavirus Vaccine Free:

"We can actually go to war and not ask one question, but to prevent this kind of a disease, we have to say, 'How can we pay for it?'"

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/ ... uNUPldeGi8

Virgo

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