What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:48 pm

Nemo wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:46 pm
That about sums it up pretty well.

Norwegian
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:53 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:41 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:35 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:20 pm


Merkel just led a press conference, and stated that 60-70 percent of the German population will be infected.
Norwegian Institute of Public Health has estimated that up to 70% of Norway's population may end up becoming infected.

Work place after work place are shutting down, and clubs, lodges, courses, etc. are all cancelling/postponing their usual schedules.

Just an hour ago, I found out that it's very likely that my sister has become infected with COVID-19. She's 10 years younger than me, and yet she's feeling this so much worse than a flu would be for her (pain in chest, difficulty breathing, etc.), and she may require hospitalization soon. Her boyfriend is also equally as sick, and he likely got infected by visitors from north Italy, before we knew about any sort of situation in Italy.

In Europe the virus is now exploding, and it likely will in the US as well, soon enough. I fear for those there who don't have proper insurance, who can't get healthcare, who don't have job security (cannot get paid sick leave, and so on). This is a very rough situation to be in.
Meanwhile in America, people are worried about undocumented immigrants getting free health care. :roll:
Good health for everybody!? What is the world coming to?!? How dare they!!!?

... Sigh
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:51 pm

Two weeks ago, Italy had 322 confirmed cases of the coronavirus. At that point, doctors in the country’s hospitals could lavish significant attention on each stricken patient.

One week ago, Italy had 2,502 cases of the virus, which causes the disease known as COVID-19. At that point, doctors in the country’s hospitals could still perform the most lifesaving functions by artificially ventilating patients who experienced acute breathing difficulties.

Today, Italy has 10,149 cases of the coronavirus. There are now simply too many patients for each one of them to receive adequate care. Doctors and nurses are unable to tend to everybody. They lack machines to ventilate all those gasping for air.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ed/607807/

Norwegian
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:37 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:51 pm
Two weeks ago, Italy had 322 confirmed cases of the coronavirus. At that point, doctors in the country’s hospitals could lavish significant attention on each stricken patient.

One week ago, Italy had 2,502 cases of the virus, which causes the disease known as COVID-19. At that point, doctors in the country’s hospitals could still perform the most lifesaving functions by artificially ventilating patients who experienced acute breathing difficulties.

Today, Italy has 10,149 cases of the coronavirus. There are now simply too many patients for each one of them to receive adequate care. Doctors and nurses are unable to tend to everybody. They lack machines to ventilate all those gasping for air.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ed/607807/
Yes, that's reality. Norwegian health minister said in emergency cases it most definitely will get to a point where people will have to choose which patients gets what kind of equipment, if there isn't enough, basically it becoming a matter of choosing who will live and who will die (of course based on criteria such as overall health etc.)

Norway has elected to not permit gatherings of over 500 people now, as well as considering creating red zones in Oslo, akin to what exist in Italy. Denmark has stated that all schools will be closed for 2 weeks, and parents must keep children home. No gatherings of over 100 people allowed.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:27 am

Andres Honores just mentioned that Denmark is effectively shut down.

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:38 am

Norwegian wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:37 pm
Norway has elected to not permit gatherings of over 500 people now, as well as considering creating red zones in Oslo, akin to what exist in Italy. Denmark has stated that all schools will be closed for 2 weeks, and parents must keep children home. No gatherings of over 100 people allowed.
The same for Czechia. 2 weeks without school at the very least and no larger gatherings. With about 60 or so cases and first cases without any connection to Italy appearing, it seems we are at the beginning of a rather nasty spike. AFAIK in Italy people ignored some of the laws and also there is quite a lot of old people, which might explain why it is so bad there, meaning that it might not be as bad here. However, given the fact how unprepared GP's and even hospitals are (basically only one hospital saying they prepared themselves) I am quite worried.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Wayfarer
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:58 am

Here in Australia at time of writing there's....let's see....still in the low hundreds, but three weeks ago it was one or two. The Australian government has just announced an AU$17.6 billion economic package to offset the economic impact of the epidemic, which is expected to be severe. The nearest diagnosis to me personally was at an educational institution about 750 meters up the highway from where I'm working. I'm following the advice re rigorous hand-washing and personal hygiene practices and must admit also generally avoiding public transport although it's quite possible I will contract it in the next few months. But personally I'm more worried about the economic consequences than the likelihood of dying from it.

I hope that the virus can be contained and the suffering it causes minimized.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi

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rory
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by rory » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:38 am

Norwegian wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:35 pm

Just an hour ago, I found out that it's very likely that my sister has become infected with COVID-19. She's 10 years younger than me, and yet she's feeling this so much worse than a flu would be for her (pain in chest, difficulty breathing, etc.), and she may require hospitalization soon. Her boyfriend is also equally as sick, and he likely got infected by visitors from north Italy, before we knew about any sort of situation in Italy.
I will pray for your sister and her boyfriend at my altar Norwegian!
Now when we cannot count on tomorrow, where there are no future plans -is the time to put Buddhism in action: see if we have internalized Buddhist values and meditate on interdependence and impermanence, exhibit compassion and wisdom and chant to be born in a Pure Land.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:50 am

rory wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:38 am
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:35 pm

Just an hour ago, I found out that it's very likely that my sister has become infected with COVID-19. She's 10 years younger than me, and yet she's feeling this so much worse than a flu would be for her (pain in chest, difficulty breathing, etc.), and she may require hospitalization soon. Her boyfriend is also equally as sick, and he likely got infected by visitors from north Italy, before we knew about any sort of situation in Italy.
I will pray for your sister and her boyfriend at my altar Norwegian!
Now when we cannot count on tomorrow, where there are no future plans -is the time to put Buddhism in action: see if we have internalized Buddhist values and meditate on interdependence and impermanence, exhibit compassion and wisdom and chant to be born in a Pure Land.
gassho
Rory
Thank you, I appreciate that.

And yes, it's important for us to practice. Said differently, as my late guru Chögyal Namkhai Norbu told me once (how important it is to have) "the capacity to integrate your daily life into practice".
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

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tobes
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by tobes » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:42 am

Nemo wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:02 pm
tobes wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:40 am
Nemo wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:36 am

It's OK to be scared when bad things are happening. I'm scared. A lot of people will get hurt. Now there is still time to prepare.
Panic gets in the way of preparing well; it doesn't help, it hinders.

There is a manifold of suffering, yes. But there always is.

Death can come at any time, anyway! Our situation was never really that good in the first instance.....
This feels like a very academic view of dealing with crisis. You are only thinking of yourself. Saying don't panic is kind of the least helpful thing you can do. There is a missing sense of urgency which has let many countries completely miss windows of opportunity. The people saying this would be over in March were all saying don't panic. In hindsight they were very obviously wrong. It's callous. If it's 9 weeks to a million cases cautiousness will always be enacting containment measures 2 weeks behind what is actually needed to stem the exponential growth of the virus. This will lead to an exponentially larger use of resources to deal with the problem until our logistics capacity is exceeded and we fail. Thousands will die and doctors will be tortured because they will refuse to treat many patients deemed a waste of resources. In the army we would mark those causalities forehead with a number 4. Priority 4, do not waste medical resources, logistics issue. This is happening in Italy now. Wouldn't you rather be HK?
I'm not sure how this follows from what I'm saying at all. What's academic about it?

I'm not saying: do not take effective action. I'm saying: to take effective action, it has to done on the basis of good knowledge and a calm mind. Panic is based on fear - it distorts reality.

In the context of where I live, they are about to run the Grand Prix. I think that is very careless - it opens the door to hundreds of thousands of international visitors. Should definitely be banned. I expect a period of quarantine over the next month or two. No need to panic about it - just do it, without fuss.

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by smcj » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:55 am

Merkel expects 60%-70% infection rate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/wor ... ticleShare
NYT wrote:Experts on disease modeling said on Wednesday that predicting overall infection rates across a country was an uncertain business, but that estimates in the 60 to 70 percent range were realistic, if perhaps on the high end, for some areas of the world.

“People in my field have been saying for well over a month that 30 to 60 percent of the world’s population will get infected,” said Dr. Elizabeth Halloran, a biostatistician.
The emphasis on slowing the spread has value so that the health care infrastructure isn’t overwhelmed all at once.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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tobes
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by tobes » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:04 am

rory wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:38 am
Norwegian wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:35 pm

Just an hour ago, I found out that it's very likely that my sister has become infected with COVID-19. She's 10 years younger than me, and yet she's feeling this so much worse than a flu would be for her (pain in chest, difficulty breathing, etc.), and she may require hospitalization soon. Her boyfriend is also equally as sick, and he likely got infected by visitors from north Italy, before we knew about any sort of situation in Italy.
I will pray for your sister and her boyfriend at my altar Norwegian!
Now when we cannot count on tomorrow, where there are no future plans -is the time to put Buddhism in action: see if we have internalized Buddhist values and meditate on interdependence and impermanence, exhibit compassion and wisdom and chant to be born in a Pure Land.
gassho
Rory
Agree. That's actually why I chimed in on this thread. It would be cool to do collective Dharmawheel-corona practice.

And for sure Norwegian, will be thinking of your sister and boyfriend...

Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:04 am

We can expect 65 to 150 million cases. 15-20 percent of those will develop into SARS. Our health system will be overwhelmed and millions of people are going to die.

Be prepared, it’s going to get a lot worse from here. There are only one million hospital beds in the US and only 65k respiratory machines.

Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:17 am

tobes wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:04 am

Agree. That's actually why I chimed in on this thread. It would be cool to do collective Dharmawheel-corona practice.
Cool? Are you high?

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tobes
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by tobes » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:22 am

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:17 am
tobes wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:04 am

Agree. That's actually why I chimed in on this thread. It would be cool to do collective Dharmawheel-corona practice.
Cool? Are you high?
How about you make a contribution to this instead of mocking my word choices.

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by DNS » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:23 am

College basketball playoffs will be played without fans. (Italy and some other nations have already started doing this.)
NBA just suspended the season.
Tom Hanks and his wife test positive for coronavirus. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/busi ... virus.html
Conventions and meetings are being cancelled around the globe.
Pres. Trump suspends all flights from Europe into the U.S. for 30 days.

smcj
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by smcj » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:25 am

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:04 am
We can expect 65 to 150 million cases. 15-20 percent of those will develop into SARS. Our health system will be overwhelmed and millions of people are going to die.

Be prepared, it’s going to get a lot worse from here. There are only one million hospital beds in the US and only 65k respiratory machines.
If the insurance companies go bankrupt we will end up with single payer whether we like it or not!
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:34 am

tobes wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:22 am
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:17 am
tobes wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:04 am

Agree. That's actually why I chimed in on this thread. It would be cool to do collective Dharmawheel-corona practice.
Cool? Are you high?
How about you make a contribution to this instead of mocking my word choices.
Your word choice indicates you have not grasped the seriousness of the situation. There are 7 billion people on the planet. It is likely that up to 1.4 billion people will be infected. Of those up to 42 million people will die. People can catch this more than once.

The above estimate is conservative and assumes maximal response from the international community. Infection rates in the US are expected to be 65 to 150 million.

smcj
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by smcj » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:44 am

Malcolm wrote:There are 7 billion people on the planet. It is likely that up to 1.4 billion people will be infected. Of those up to 42 million people will die.
That’s a 20% infection rate. Out of curiosity, what’s your source for those numbers? As I posted above, Merkel just told the Germans to expect 60%-70% infection rate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/wor ... ticleShare
In the article it says that’s on the high side of estimates. According to the article, more conservative estimates ran 30%-60% infection rate.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:51 am

smcj wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:44 am
Malcolm wrote:There are 7 billion people on the planet. It is likely that up to 1.4 billion people will be infected. Of those up to 42 million people will die.
Out of curiosity, what’s your source for those numbers? As I posted above, Merkel just told the Germans to expect 60%-70% infection rate.
Assuming a 20 percent infection rate with a maximal response from the international community.

If there is a global 60-70 percent infection rate, 60 percent is 4,200,000,000. 4 percent of that is 168,000,000 deaths world wide.

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