What are you doing about the coronavirus?

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Norwegian
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:07 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:00 pm
Putting aside the Nazi-worthy comments, I thought there were some strict measures being implemented as we speak? What makes you think the future is really so bleak?
Strict measures in the US? Well, after Trump realized his hotels are losing a lot of money, he wants to remove all of these "strict measures" as soon as possible so that the country can return to normal (and he can make money again).

As I said earlier, Danish studies of the effect of their lockdown rules, shows that there's a 30% to 50% reduction in infection rates, but only if you have those rules implemented. Norway will keep up its lockdown, with slightly stricter regulations now, up to at least April 13th, but will likely last longer.

This way you get results, and you flatten the curve. But by just saying "Everything is normal again, live as you've always lived" does not make a change.
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by justsit » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:13 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:14 pm
Virgo wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:07 pm
The reality is that would just cause a second wave (and potentially a third, fourth, etc.). "Young people" also have underlying conditions in many cases, and even those who aren't strongly effected just become carriers. It is not a viable option at all. It would also lead to greater economic disaster in the long run.

Virgo
Yes this doesn't help at all. At any rate, someone should ask Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick if he's willing to set an example and die first, after all he's old enough to qualify.

Sad really, to see just how bad of a shape the US is in. Instead of coming together as one nation, the toxic right are showing their true colors.
Die for the Dow?? Bwahaha. Fat f***in' chance.

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Virgo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Virgo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:43 pm

'Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure': Woman whose husband died after ingesting chloroquine warns the public not to 'believe anything that the president says':

"The wife of an Arizona man who died after ingesting chloroquine phosphate to protect himself from the novel coronavirus urged the public on Monday not to "believe anything that the president says" and rely on doctors instead."

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-kept-sayin ... soc_trk=fb

Virgo

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:01 pm

China to end lockdown of coronavirus-hit Hubei province; Wuhan to open next month
https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-end ... ubei-wuhan

China Set to End Wuhan Coronavirus Lockdown as Reported Cases Subside
https://time.com/5808736/china-ends-hub ... -lockdown/

Hubei lockdown ends Wednesday, Wuhan on April 8
If there's no second wave, that will give hope worldwide at a time when the EU and much of the US is in lockdown
https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/hubei-loc ... n-april-8/

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:08 pm

Oxford saying the RO is much higher than expected and most in Italy and the Uk already have it. So the fatality rate is much lower than expected. Fighting blind is always such a joy. Too bad there aren't enough tests to find out who is right. If they are right in 3 months this is over and containment is a waste of time as more will be killed by financial dislocation than the virus.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxmu2rwsnhi9j ... %29.pdf?dl

OMG Trump is preternaturally lucky isn't he. This is exactly that freaks kind of karma.

Now China's numbers make sense. They have reached herd immunity.

Here we go, translated into normal people English.
https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd ... bea055720b

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by smcj » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 pm

Too bad there aren't enough tests to find out who is right. If they are right in 3 months this is over and containment is a waste of time
I don’t buy it. At yesterday’s White House briefing they said New York had a 25% positive test return, but the national average is 8%. If there’s widespread infection the national percentage would show it.

Or so it seems to my dilettante’s mind.
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2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
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Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Pero » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:28 pm

I don't buy it either. If most in Italy had it, the whole country would be seeing the situation of Northern Italy. The UK should've been seeing too. In the beginning of March one of WHO doctors that went to China said that there was no proof at all that the cases they found were just the tip of iceberg but that it was more like a pyramid where you can see everything.

And one could argue that the Chinese numbers don't make sense according to this study because in that case what happened in Wuhan should've been happening all over China.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:30 pm

smcj wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 pm
Too bad there aren't enough tests to find out who is right. If they are right in 3 months this is over and containment is a waste of time
I don’t buy it. At yesterday’s White House briefing they said New York had a 25% positive test return, but the national average is 8%. If there’s widespread infection the national percentage would show it.

Or so it seems to my dilettante’s mind.
If it's 25% where are the dead? If Oxford is right and I think we can call them a trusted news source China has been lying. A very different story took place. China detected a Corona virus in Wuhan and panicked. They covered it up and allowed 5 million of the rich and well connected to escape before lock down. Then they had to lie about the numbers to explain all the dead. This made the entire world panic based on their lies of a high fatality rate when in reality they had let it burn for months. The 5 million who escaped had spread it to the entire world almost instantly. We never had the slightest chance at containment. The fallout from this will be truly epic if Oxford is correct.

That China's infection rate magically stopped made no sense. Containment is not that effective. It was not containment but herd immunity. Cause this shit just don't look real otherwise. I think we put too much faith in shitty RT PCR tests and not enough in out own senses. Things have not looked right from an epidemiological standpoint for weeks.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:43 pm

Nemo wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:30 pm
smcj wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 pm
Too bad there aren't enough tests to find out who is right. If they are right in 3 months this is over and containment is a waste of time
I don’t buy it. At yesterday’s White House briefing they said New York had a 25% positive test return, but the national average is 8%. If there’s widespread infection the national percentage would show it.

Or so it seems to my dilettante’s mind.
If it's 25% where are the dead? If Oxford is right and I think we can call them a trusted news source China has been lying. A very different story took place. China detected a Corona virus in Wuhan and panicked. They covered it up and allowed 5 million of the rich and well connected to escape before lock down. Then they had to lie about the numbers to explain all the dead. This made the entire world panic based on their lies of a high fatality rate when in reality they had let it burn for months. The 5 million who escaped had spread it to the entire world almost instantly. We never had the slightest chance at containment. The fallout from this will be truly epic if Oxford is correct.

That China's infection rate magically stopped made no sense. Containment is not that effective. It was not containment but herd immunity. Cause this shit just don't look real otherwise. I think we put too much faith in shitty RT PCR tests and not enough in out own senses. Things have not looked right from an epidemiological standpoint for weeks.
I would not be surprised if the virus was already pretty widespread and the deathrate was quite low. In Czech Republic we have about 1300 cases and only 3 people died so far. One was 95 year old man who died of heart failure, second was 47 year old man who died of cancer while having the virus and third victim was a 71 year old woman. I am quite sure that if the virus is caught early enough it should not be that horribly fatal.

It is China that worries me. It started selling face masks to other states and today our secret service informed us that chinese embassy in Prague was actively buying out face masks and other medical things back in January via their citizens. Unfortunately our political leadership was too useless to do something about it few months back.
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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:09 pm

Könchok Thrinley wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:43 pm
Nemo wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:30 pm
smcj wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 pm

I don’t buy it. At yesterday’s White House briefing they said New York had a 25% positive test return, but the national average is 8%. If there’s widespread infection the national percentage would show it.

Or so it seems to my dilettante’s mind.
If it's 25% where are the dead? If Oxford is right and I think we can call them a trusted news source China has been lying. A very different story took place. China detected a Corona virus in Wuhan and panicked. They covered it up and allowed 5 million of the rich and well connected to escape before lock down. Then they had to lie about the numbers to explain all the dead. This made the entire world panic based on their lies of a high fatality rate when in reality they had let it burn for months. The 5 million who escaped had spread it to the entire world almost instantly. We never had the slightest chance at containment. The fallout from this will be truly epic if Oxford is correct.

That China's infection rate magically stopped made no sense. Containment is not that effective. It was not containment but herd immunity. Cause this shit just don't look real otherwise. I think we put too much faith in shitty RT PCR tests and not enough in out own senses. Things have not looked right from an epidemiological standpoint for weeks.
I would not be surprised if the virus was already pretty widespread and the deathrate was quite low. In Czech Republic we have about 1300 cases and only 3 people died so far. One was 95 year old man who died of heart failure, second was 47 year old man who died of cancer while having the virus and third victim was a 71 year old woman. I am quite sure that if the virus is caught early enough it should not be that horribly fatal.

It is China that worries me. It started selling face masks to other states and today our secret service informed us that chinese embassy in Prague was actively buying out face masks and other medical things back in January via their citizens. Unfortunately our political leadership was too useless to do something about it few months back.
If it wasn't Oxford I wouldn't consider it. They will release all their data in the next few days. Then it can be verified. Then a good serological survey at ground zero of an outbreak. In 21 days fatality rates will prove or disprove their hypothesis as well. Hopefully Oxford is right and this won't be as serious as we thought.
Last edited by Nemo on Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Pero » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:28 pm

Nemo wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:30 pm
smcj wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 pm
Too bad there aren't enough tests to find out who is right. If they are right in 3 months this is over and containment is a waste of time
I don’t buy it. At yesterday’s White House briefing they said New York had a 25% positive test return, but the national average is 8%. If there’s widespread infection the national percentage would show it.

Or so it seems to my dilettante’s mind.
If it's 25% where are the dead? If Oxford is right and I think we can call them a trusted news source China has been lying. A very different story took place. China detected a Corona virus in Wuhan and panicked. They covered it up and allowed 5 million of the rich and well connected to escape before lock down. Then they had to lie about the numbers to explain all the dead. This made the entire world panic based on their lies of a high fatality rate when in reality they had let it burn for months. The 5 million who escaped had spread it to the entire world almost instantly. We never had the slightest chance at containment. The fallout from this will be truly epic if Oxford is correct.

That China's infection rate magically stopped made no sense. Containment is not that effective. It was not containment but herd immunity. Cause this shit just don't look real otherwise. I think we put too much faith in shitty RT PCR tests and not enough in out own senses. Things have not looked right from an epidemiological standpoint for weeks.
Why less problems in other Chinese cities? If what you're saying was true, all of China should've experienced Wuhan's situation. If it did, and China covered that up, it was a pretty amazing cover up.

Though I agree that the Chinese suddenly stopped having new infected is suspicious.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:43 pm

Pero wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:28 pm
Nemo wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:30 pm
smcj wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 pm

I don’t buy it. At yesterday’s White House briefing they said New York had a 25% positive test return, but the national average is 8%. If there’s widespread infection the national percentage would show it.

Or so it seems to my dilettante’s mind.
If it's 25% where are the dead? If Oxford is right and I think we can call them a trusted news source China has been lying. A very different story took place. China detected a Corona virus in Wuhan and panicked. They covered it up and allowed 5 million of the rich and well connected to escape before lock down. Then they had to lie about the numbers to explain all the dead. This made the entire world panic based on their lies of a high fatality rate when in reality they had let it burn for months. The 5 million who escaped had spread it to the entire world almost instantly. We never had the slightest chance at containment. The fallout from this will be truly epic if Oxford is correct.

That China's infection rate magically stopped made no sense. Containment is not that effective. It was not containment but herd immunity. Cause this shit just don't look real otherwise. I think we put too much faith in shitty RT PCR tests and not enough in out own senses. Things have not looked right from an epidemiological standpoint for weeks.
Why less problems in other Chinese cities? If what you're saying was true, all of China should've experienced Wuhan's situation. If it did, and China covered that up, it was a pretty amazing cover up.

Though I agree that the Chinese suddenly stopped having new infected is suspicious.
Canadian farmers had an expression when we "cured" our Mad Cow disease outbreak. Shoot, Shovel and Shut up.

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Are there any importers or forwarders on here?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:52 pm

I think that all the news reports and all that could have their own thread, right ? this thread is about "What are you doing about the coronavirus?"

I'm interested in whats happening with our fellow dharmawheelers. How is all this effecting you lately? Anybody been tested for virus ? How long did it take before you found out?

Hows business been for everyone?

Alot of dharmawheelers I think are therapist or social worker. Are you just talking to customers on video chat now or what?

I know not everyone on here is a therapist or social worker, right? Are there any importers or forwarders on here?
Anybody doing AMZ FBA?
Hows is it going for you?

Air freight is almost 7.00/kg now.

If there are any importers, brokers or forwarders, on here, I'd love to hear a dharmawheelers perspective.

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by PeterC » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:16 am

Nemo wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:30 pm
smcj wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:58 pm
Too bad there aren't enough tests to find out who is right. If they are right in 3 months this is over and containment is a waste of time
I don’t buy it. At yesterday’s White House briefing they said New York had a 25% positive test return, but the national average is 8%. If there’s widespread infection the national percentage would show it.

Or so it seems to my dilettante’s mind.
If it's 25% where are the dead? If Oxford is right and I think we can call them a trusted news source China has been lying. A very different story took place. China detected a Corona virus in Wuhan and panicked. They covered it up and allowed 5 million of the rich and well connected to escape before lock down. Then they had to lie about the numbers to explain all the dead. This made the entire world panic based on their lies of a high fatality rate when in reality they had let it burn for months. The 5 million who escaped had spread it to the entire world almost instantly. We never had the slightest chance at containment. The fallout from this will be truly epic if Oxford is correct.
That isn’t quite right. First, the 5m who left Wuhan were mostly regular people who didn’t leave the country, they fled to other parts of China. China has tracked the ones who went to other cities but obviously not those who went to other countries.

The paper trail on how this was identified by local doctors, then ignored by local government, then picked up on by national government is pretty much all out in the open, so the timeline is what it is.

They’re not lying about case numbers. However the testing itself understated the true prevalence by 60-80%. People who were quarantined in lockdown, got it, then recovered with only mild or no symptoms often were not tested. Only those who have symptoms and/or close contact with a positive case get tested (which is the protocol in all Asian countries, though some are now testing all foreign arrivals as a matter of course). We know that up to 80% of cases are asymptomatic or only have mild flu-like symptoms.

Interestingly there are documented reports of a cluster of unusual pneumonia cases in northern italy in late November, raising the question of where this really started. However that is a little academic. Northern Italy has a lot of sweatshops making clothes with Chinese labor. whichever way it went, it was the crowded urban environment in China that provided the potential for rapid growth.

The mortality rate seems to depend heavily on the ability of the healthcare system to, well, care. The Koreans experienced a case-based mortality rate of 0.1%. Why? Because they tested the most intensively and treated aggressively. Italy reports a case-based mortality rate of about 8%, because testing is slow and treatment resources constrained. Unfortunately we can’t separate the effects of broader testing to reveal the true mortality rate and better treatment, but from a public health perspective, we don’t need to, the conclusion is the same, you need to do both.
That China's infection rate magically stopped made no sense. Containment is not that effective. It was not containment but herd immunity. Cause this shit just don't look real otherwise. I think we put too much faith in shitty RT PCR tests and not enough in out own senses. Things have not looked right from an epidemiological standpoint for weeks.
Lockdown in China is completely different from lockdown in, say, Italy or Florida. People respect the rules. But yes, the tests are not great. False positive rates are about 50%. Nowhere can I find reports of the false negative rates. Most countries in asia are doing multiple tests per subject to reduce the diagnostic error rate.

One other observation. In most Asian countries if you go into hospital with symptoms for this you will get a first-line drug treatment, not just steroids plus ventilator. They’re not waiting for results of the WHO trials. Anecdotal results of these are good. However in the US, that would be an off-label drug use which nobody would pay for and the doctors would be unwilling to prescribe. So it’s fair to assume that the treatment received in the US will be a lot less aggressive than elsewhere.

Which brings me to your first, and the most interesting question. Where are the dead. The answer is simple; undiagnosed and therefore uncounted. I hope nobody does the estimates of that, as it will just add to the panic, and the panic is probably more dangerous than the virus.

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Re: Are there any importers or forwarders on here?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:18 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:52 pm
I think that all the news reports and all that could have their own thread, right ? this thread is about "What are you doing about the coronavirus?"

I'm interested in whats happening with our fellow dharmawheelers. How is all this effecting you lately? Anybody been tested for virus ? How long did it take before you found out?

Hows business been for everyone?

Alot of dharmawheelers I think are therapist or social worker. Are you just talking to customers on video chat now or what?

I know not everyone on here is a therapist or social worker, right? Are there any importers or forwarders on here?
Anybody doing AMZ FBA?
Hows is it going for you?

Air freight is almost 7.00/kg now.

If there are any importers, brokers or forwarders, on here, I'd love to hear a dharmawheelers perspective.
I left my job as a chemical dependency counselor to go back to school (all online at this point of course) for now, but I know my employer recently went all - online right before I left. I did one of the last in-person groups. With people coughing on me..lol. People have been doing telemedicine mental health for a while, and my boss was already familiar with it, so it's not a tough transition -other than- stuff like reporting to judicial entities, etc. I also can't quite envision a substance abuse treatment group done on Zoom or similar, but I'll bet it's happening.

Individual appointments people have been doing through telemedicine for years. The smaller the agency, the easier the transition. I imagine the larger treatment agencies (some of whom have like 500 patients or more) are having a rough time.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by smcj » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:38 am

The Koreans experienced a case-based mortality rate of 0.1%.
That’s the same as a normal seasonal flu.
Italy reports a case-based mortality rate of about 8%,
That’s 80X as much and about the same as the Spanish flu pandemic of 100 years ago.

That’s quite a difference!
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by PeterC » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:49 am

smcj wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:38 am
The Koreans experienced a case-based mortality rate of 0.1%.
That’s the same as a normal seasonal flu.
Italy reports a case-based mortality rate of about 8%,
That’s 80X as much and about the same as the Spanish flu pandemic of 100 years ago.

That’s quite a difference!
Exactly. That’s the point. The obvious question is - is it that the mortality rate is lower and the Koreans are just doing more testing; or that the Koreans are treating it better. The answer is, well, both, and it doesn’t really matter what each factor contributes, because we obviously should be doing what the Koreans are doing.

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by zerwe » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:03 am

I am an RN that works in a big Trauma center ICU and we are terrified. We honestly don't have the proper equipment to protect ourselves and if it continues we won't have the equipment to help the patients either. I spoke to a friend who works in the same type of unit in NY and it is a real life horror show there. It is coming.

Shaun :namaste:

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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by zerwe » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:05 am

PeterC wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:49 am
smcj wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:38 am
The Koreans experienced a case-based mortality rate of 0.1%.
That’s the same as a normal seasonal flu.
Italy reports a case-based mortality rate of about 8%,
That’s 80X as much and about the same as the Spanish flu pandemic of 100 years ago.

That’s quite a difference!
Exactly. That’s the point. The obvious question is - is it that the mortality rate is lower and the Koreans are just doing more testing; or that the Koreans are treating it better. The answer is, well, both, and it doesn’t really matter what each factor contributes, because we obviously should be doing what the Koreans are doing.
Yes, if we had mass testing capability, the ability to properly isolate/cohort those identified as positive, practiced strict social distancing, and had the necessary equipment to keep healthcare workers safe we could shut this down. However, we do not.

Shaun :namaste:

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PeterC
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by PeterC » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:12 am

zerwe wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:05 am
PeterC wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:49 am
smcj wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:38 am

That’s the same as a normal seasonal flu.


That’s 80X as much and about the same as the Spanish flu pandemic of 100 years ago.

That’s quite a difference!
Exactly. That’s the point. The obvious question is - is it that the mortality rate is lower and the Koreans are just doing more testing; or that the Koreans are treating it better. The answer is, well, both, and it doesn’t really matter what each factor contributes, because we obviously should be doing what the Koreans are doing.
Yes, if we had mass testing capability, the ability to properly isolate/cohort those identified as positive, practiced strict social distancing, and had the necessary equipment to keep healthcare workers safe we could shut this down. However, we do not.

Shaun :namaste:
No country went into this with all the resources they needed. Korea found out it had a problem because some crazy cult leader who thinks he’s the immortal reincarnation of Jesus had brought a bunch of missionaries back from Wuhan, told them that they should pray instead of getting medical help, and then sent them to join services at other churches to infect them. Yet within ten days they had disinfected every inch of ground these people had stood on, tracked all their movements using cell tower data, manufactured and deployed mass testing capabilities, etc etc. Koreans aren’t magicians. They just have competent public servants who do their jobs: and enough experience with flu pandemics to know the basic playbook. That’s what divides the countries who have this under control from those who don’t.

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