What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sat May 23, 2020 6:51 am

This looks like a good point at which to share a longish article which I really liked. It begins -
What is a conspiracy theory anyway? Sometimes the term is deployed against anyone who questions authority, dissents from dominant paradigms, or thinks that hidden interests influence our leading institutions. As such, it is a way to quash dissent and bully those trying to stand up to abuses of power. One needn’t abandon critical thinking to believe that powerful institutions sometimes collude, conspire, cover up, and are corrupt. If that is what is meant by a conspiracy theory, obviously some of those theories are true. Does anyone remember Enron? Iran-Contra? COINTELPRO? Vioxx? Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?

During the time of Covid-19, another level of conspiracy theory has risen to prominence that goes way beyond specific stories of collusion and corruption to posit conspiracy as a core explanatory principle for how the world works. Fuelled by the authoritarian response to the pandemic (justifiable or not, lockdown, quarantine, surveillance and tracking, censorship of misinformation, suspension of freedom of assembly and other civil liberties, and so on are indeed authoritarian), this arch-conspiracy theory holds that an evil, power-hungry cabal of insiders deliberately created the pandemic or is at least ruthlessly exploiting it to frighten the public into accepting a totalitarian world government under permanent medical martial law, a New World Order (NWO). Furthermore, this evil group, this illuminati, pulls the strings of all major governments, corporations, the United Nations, the WHO, the CDC, the media, the intelligence services, the banks, and the NGOs. In other words, they say, everything we are told is a lie, and the world is in the grip of evil.

So what do I think about that theory? I think it is a myth. And what is a myth? A myth is not the same thing as a fantasy or a delusion. Myths are vehicles of truth, and that truth needn’t be literal. ...
:reading: :reading: https://charleseisenstein.org/essays/th ... racy-myth/

:namaste:
Kim

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Dan74
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Dan74 » Sat May 23, 2020 8:05 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:35 am
Dan74 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:04 pm
I think you hit the nail on the head, Malcolm, when you said "ignorance." But from where I stand, it is understandable - a concerted propaganda and disinformation campaign has been run for years, and not only by Fox & Co. The web of lies that has been spun has gotten so thick that it is little wonder you are in the post-truth world and people just choose what they want to believe, completely disregarding (distrusting) the facts.
No, this shifts responsibility and deprives them of their personal responsibility. These people are willingly complying with evil, harmful policies. We are not in a post-truth world. Facts are still facts, even if 30 percent of the country willfully ignores them, even though they know they are lying. This is how all authoritarianism gets a foothold and spreads. The cult of Xi, Modi, Trump, Orban, Putin are all identical in this respect.
Most people don't know how to tell fact from fiction and in a society where lying has become acceptable, there is no reliable authority to turn to. People who you call covidiots do not wilfully ignore facts, placing their own and other people's lives in danger, they don't know any better.

Of course, everyone can improve themselves. We too could abandon ignorance and attain awakening. In fact, given the amount of wonderful teachings we've received, it's a bloody disgrace that we don't. But what of those, who were never exposed to any Dharma? Is it surprising that they remain mired in ignorance?

Similarly, for those of us who were beneficiaries of an upbringing with good values, a solid education and have not from an early age been immersed in disinformation and manipulative lies, it is easy to judge those who have had it very different.

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Grigoris
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Grigoris » Sat May 23, 2020 8:17 am

Danny wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:37 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:13 pm

Never underestimate the power of stupid.
Put in context, the American people voted for Trump as their let lose Frankenstein monster to smash up the village.

Maybe its not that stupid. IDK?
:shrug:


regards
I recommend you go read Frankenstein (Prometheus Unbound).

Dr. Frankenstein's monster was a victim, not a perpetrator.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Sat May 23, 2020 8:54 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:17 am
Danny wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:37 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:13 pm

Never underestimate the power of stupid.
Put in context, the American people voted for Trump as their let lose Frankenstein monster to smash up the village.

Maybe its not that stupid. IDK?
:shrug:


regards
I recommend you go read Frankenstein (Prometheus Unbound).

Dr. Frankenstein's monster was a victim, not a perpetrator.
What are the chances that Trump could ever get treated for his narcissism now that it has made him President? I guess narcissism isn't pathological anymore. It's a positive trait. His fame and wealth did make him the rampaging monster we see today.

Norwegian
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Sat May 23, 2020 11:39 am

More covidiocy:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... face-masks
No masks allowed: stores turn customers away in US culture war

Shops around the US make headlines for denying entry to those wearing masks as protesters argue against preventative measures in the name of freedom
...
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Sat May 23, 2020 12:24 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:17 am
Danny wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:37 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:13 pm

Never underestimate the power of stupid.
Put in context, the American people voted for Trump as their let lose Frankenstein monster to smash up the village.

Maybe its not that stupid. IDK?
:shrug:


regards
I recommend you go read Frankenstein (Prometheus Unbound).

Dr. Frankenstein's monster was a victim, not a perpetrator.
The American voter felt victimized by endless wars, over regulation, open borders , 2018 sub prime mortgage collapse, I can go on, and by extension so did mr trump.

Regards

Regards

Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Sat May 23, 2020 12:42 pm

Plus the monster has managed to evade all attempts at capture. It's hysterical.
If you can't enjoy the dark humor in that as a neutral observer, then truly high on ones own supply.

Anyway I'm retired.
Regards

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Sat May 23, 2020 12:56 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:03 pm
Nemo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:21 pm

But I don't really think Biden is electable.
The alternative is far worse.
Bernie would already be beating him. Instead the elites stuck you with this nag with one foot in the glue factory. The DNC seems to think that business as usual will suffice. The far left is a voter bloc now and without concrete concessions no one is showing up. It's put up or shut up time. Give the left some progressive policy platforms or get lost. Being 100% in corporate pockets is no longer good enough but the party would rather lose than make that 90%. The gun isn't to our head it's to theirs.
Last edited by Nemo on Sat May 23, 2020 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dan74
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Dan74 » Sat May 23, 2020 1:20 pm

Nemo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:56 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:03 pm
Nemo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:21 pm

But I don't really think Biden is electable.
The alternative is far worse.
Bernie would already be beating him. Instead the elites stuck you with this nag with one foot in the glue factory.
Life imitating art..



Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 23, 2020 3:22 pm

Nemo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:56 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:03 pm
Nemo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:21 pm

But I don't really think Biden is electable.
The alternative is far worse.
Bernie would already be beating him. Instead the elites stuck you with this nag with one foot in the glue factory. The DNC seems to think that business as usual will suffice. The far left is a voter bloc now and without concrete concessions no one is showing up.
Let us hope you are wrong. Bernie is giving full throated support to Biden these days. Apart from the converted, everyone in America is tired of the Trump shit show.

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Dan74
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Dan74 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:02 pm

btw, Nemo, looks like that clip is a fake...

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-cam ... ally-said/

Norwegian
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Norwegian » Sat May 23, 2020 4:32 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:02 pm
btw, Nemo, looks like that clip is a fake...

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-cam ... ally-said/
People falling prey to fake news propaganda, again. What else is new?
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

Danny
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Sat May 23, 2020 4:59 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:51 am
This looks like a good point at which to share a longish article which I really liked. It begins -
What is a conspiracy theory anyway? Sometimes the term is deployed against anyone who questions authority, dissents from dominant paradigms, or thinks that hidden interests influence our leading institutions. As such, it is a way to quash dissent and bully those trying to stand up to abuses of power. One needn’t abandon critical thinking to believe that powerful institutions sometimes collude, conspire, cover up, and are corrupt. If that is what is meant by a conspiracy theory, obviously some of those theories are true. Does anyone remember Enron? Iran-Contra? COINTELPRO? Vioxx? Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?

During the time of Covid-19, another level of conspiracy theory has risen to prominence that goes way beyond specific stories of collusion and corruption to posit conspiracy as a core explanatory principle for how the world works. Fuelled by the authoritarian response to the pandemic (justifiable or not, lockdown, quarantine, surveillance and tracking, censorship of misinformation, suspension of freedom of assembly and other civil liberties, and so on are indeed authoritarian), this arch-conspiracy theory holds that an evil, power-hungry cabal of insiders deliberately created the pandemic or is at least ruthlessly exploiting it to frighten the public into accepting a totalitarian world government under permanent medical martial law, a New World Order (NWO). Furthermore, this evil group, this illuminati, pulls the strings of all major governments, corporations, the United Nations, the WHO, the CDC, the media, the intelligence services, the banks, and the NGOs. In other words, they say, everything we are told is a lie, and the world is in the grip of evil.

So what do I think about that theory? I think it is a myth. And what is a myth? A myth is not the same thing as a fantasy or a delusion. Myths are vehicles of truth, and that truth needn’t be literal. ...
:reading: :reading: https://charleseisenstein.org/essays/th ... racy-myth/


:namaste:
Kim
It's a strategy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u- ... americans/

Regards

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Dan74
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Dan74 » Sat May 23, 2020 7:12 pm

Danny wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 4:59 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:51 am
This looks like a good point at which to share a longish article which I really liked. It begins -
What is a conspiracy theory anyway? Sometimes the term is deployed against anyone who questions authority, dissents from dominant paradigms, or thinks that hidden interests influence our leading institutions. As such, it is a way to quash dissent and bully those trying to stand up to abuses of power. One needn’t abandon critical thinking to believe that powerful institutions sometimes collude, conspire, cover up, and are corrupt. If that is what is meant by a conspiracy theory, obviously some of those theories are true. Does anyone remember Enron? Iran-Contra? COINTELPRO? Vioxx? Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?

During the time of Covid-19, another level of conspiracy theory has risen to prominence that goes way beyond specific stories of collusion and corruption to posit conspiracy as a core explanatory principle for how the world works. Fuelled by the authoritarian response to the pandemic (justifiable or not, lockdown, quarantine, surveillance and tracking, censorship of misinformation, suspension of freedom of assembly and other civil liberties, and so on are indeed authoritarian), this arch-conspiracy theory holds that an evil, power-hungry cabal of insiders deliberately created the pandemic or is at least ruthlessly exploiting it to frighten the public into accepting a totalitarian world government under permanent medical martial law, a New World Order (NWO). Furthermore, this evil group, this illuminati, pulls the strings of all major governments, corporations, the United Nations, the WHO, the CDC, the media, the intelligence services, the banks, and the NGOs. In other words, they say, everything we are told is a lie, and the world is in the grip of evil.

So what do I think about that theory? I think it is a myth. And what is a myth? A myth is not the same thing as a fantasy or a delusion. Myths are vehicles of truth, and that truth needn’t be literal. ...
:reading: :reading: https://charleseisenstein.org/essays/th ... racy-myth/


:namaste:
Kim
It's a strategy.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u- ... americans/

Regards
Do public broadcasters have any significant influence on the US public opinion? What do you think the significance of this 7 year old change has been?

Danny
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Sat May 23, 2020 8:24 pm

Well lets answer a question with a question,
Where do you go to get trusted news?

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-is-p ... rk-2295248


Regards

Malcolm
Posts: 31765
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 23, 2020 8:50 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 7:12 pm
Do public broadcasters have any significant influence on the US public opinion?
No, however, the cable news channels do have such influence. In particular, Fox News has an enormous influence on a certain subsection of the American public, older, racist (whether they admit it or not), white people who are afraid of the inevitable demographic shift that will inevitably make the US browner, blacker, and multilingual.

Roger Ailes was an evil genius.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sat May 23, 2020 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Malcolm
Posts: 31765
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 23, 2020 8:53 pm

Danny wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:24 pm
Well lets answer a question with a question,
Where do you go to get trusted news?

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-is-p ... rk-2295248
By the same author:

Q: Is Breitbart News a credible news source for you? Why or why not?

No. True journalists have no agenda, with the opinion pages separated from news gathering.

Breitbart clearly has an agenda baked into their stories, which really aren’t designed to inform, but to persuade.

The acid test of fairness is simple: fair, journalism-based newspapers and magazines will post stories that are critical of any public figure or elected official, and they’ll save opinion for the oped pages. Biased outlets with only go after one side
https://www.quora.com/profile/Guy-Bergstrom

Danny
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Sat May 23, 2020 9:04 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:53 pm
Danny wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:24 pm
Well lets answer a question with a question,
Where do you go to get trusted news?

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-is-p ... rk-2295248
By the same author:

Q: Is Breitbart News a credible news source for you? Why or why not?

No. True journalists have no agenda, with the opinion pages separated from news gathering.

Breitbart clearly has an agenda baked into their stories, which really aren’t designed to inform, but to persuade.

The acid test of fairness is simple: fair, journalism-based newspapers and magazines will post stories that are critical of any public figure or elected official, and they’ll save opinion for the oped pages. Biased outlets with only go after one side
https://www.quora.com/profile/Guy-Bergstrom
I agree, 24 hour news cycles are click bait and op eds, most are paid "contributors" mixed in with the usual dose of "fancy that" stories, very little news is actually reported.
It's important not to get locked into information ghettos.

Regards

Malcolm
Posts: 31765
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Sat May 23, 2020 9:22 pm

Danny wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:04 pm
It's important not to get locked into information ghettos.
Yes, this is what newspapers of record are for, etc. Not that they are perfect, they all make errors. But in general, the sales of advertising forced newspapers to strive for objectivity in reporting.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun May 24, 2020 12:14 am

I posted this on DWE a couple of years ago - visit https://dharmawheel.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=184 for the discussion, if you like - and it's still useful.

:coffee:
Kim

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