What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:41 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:35 pm
Nemo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:26 pm
I don't think we will.
I don't think you understand my dear Nemo: I consider a win by the Democrats essentially the same as a win by the Republicans. All the shit going down now didn't develop over Trump's reign, it has been there the whole time and you can bet that if Biden gets into power he will do NOTHING to change it.
On this we completely agree.
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Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:46 pm

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06 ... t-species/

One of the longest-running questions about this pandemic is a simple one: where did it come from? How did a virus that had seemingly never infected a human before make a sudden appearance in our species, equipped with what it needed to sweep from China through the globe in a matter of months?

Analysis of the virus's genome was ambiguous. Some analyses placed its origin within the local bat population. Others highlighted similarities to pangolins, which might have been brought to the area by the wildlife trade. Less evidence-based ideas included an escape from a research lab or a misplaced bioweapon. Now, a US-based research team has done a detailed analysis of a large collection of viral genomes, and it finds that evolution pieced together the virus from multiple parts—most from bats, but with a key contribution from pangolins.

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 am

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:46 pm
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06 ... t-species/

One of the longest-running questions about this pandemic is a simple one: where did it come from? How did a virus that had seemingly never infected a human before make a sudden appearance in our species, equipped with what it needed to sweep from China through the globe in a matter of months?

Analysis of the virus's genome was ambiguous. Some analyses placed its origin within the local bat population. Others highlighted similarities to pangolins, which might have been brought to the area by the wildlife trade. Less evidence-based ideas included an escape from a research lab or a misplaced bioweapon. Now, a US-based research team has done a detailed analysis of a large collection of viral genomes, and it finds that evolution pieced together the virus from multiple parts—most from bats, but with a key contribution from pangolins.
Still doesn't explain the polybasic furin cleavage site that allows it to infect humans so well. If you found radioactive iodine killing people 350 meters from a nuclear plant what is the most obvious explanation? Natural deposition? Obviously that is what the nuke plant operators will tell you. No one said it was a weapon. That is a red herring. Sure, it could be natural. But if so you should also check your trash for winning lotto tickets. There is no proof it is natural. But the WiV was doing gain of function testing on corona viruses. Shi herself said there were no similar viruses with 1500km. Recombination through cell line cultures in a petri dish looks exactly the same.

There is an easy explanation why the most obvious answer is not being considered.
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Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:53 am

Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 am
, it could be natural. But if so you should also check your trash for winning lotto tickets. There is no proof it is natural.
You know quite well you cannot prove a negative. So why go there?

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:52 am

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:53 am
Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:03 am
, it could be natural. But if so you should also check your trash for winning lotto tickets. There is no proof it is natural.
You know quite well you cannot prove a negative. So why go there?
There would have been many clues if it was natural. Finding the source of the infected bats in the wild nearby. Finding an infected bat in the wet market. Finding a vendor. Finding a bat or pangolin with an ancestor to Covid within 1500km of Wuhan. Finding humans with antibodies where the crossover event occurred. Contact tracing leading to patient zero. Etc, Even the Chinese CDC admits the wet market was a lie, destroyed virus samples and disappeared whistle blowers.

There is not a shred of proof for the natural model other than probability and a mountain of evidence pointing at the lab. Why did the CCP lie? The simplest explanation is the one to disprove. If people are dying of radiation poisoning beside a reactor and the nearest natural isotopes are 1500km away what is the most probable explanation? You think it was people bringing radioactive isotopes identical to those used in the reactor to the site accidentally.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Kim O'Hara » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:24 am

On a rather different aspect, here's a long read about the intersection of the pandemic and the riots - no, not the likelihood that the riots will cause a big spike in COVID, though it probably will, but in underlying causes of both.
The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

The pandemic has exposed the bitter terms of our racial contract, which deems certain lives of greater value than others.

The underlying assumptions of white innocence and black guilt are all part of what the philosopher Charles Mills calls the “racial contract.” If the social contract is the implicit agreement among members of a society to follow the rules—for example, acting lawfully, adhering to the results of elections, and contesting the agreed-upon rules by nonviolent means—then the racial contract is a codicil rendered in invisible ink, one stating that the rules as written do not apply to nonwhite people in the same way.

The racial contract is not partisan—it guides staunch conservatives and sensitive liberals alike—but it works most effectively when it remains imperceptible to its beneficiaries. As long as it is invisible, members of society can proceed as though the provisions of the social contract apply equally to everyone. But when an injustice pushes the racial contract into the open, it forces people to choose whether to embrace, contest, or deny its existence. Video evidence of unjustified shootings of black people is so jarring in part because it exposes the terms of the racial contract so vividly. But as the process in the Arbery case shows, the racial contract most often operates unnoticed, relying on Americans to have an implicit understanding of who is bound by the rules, and who is exempt from them. ...

The coronavirus epidemic has rendered the racial contract visible in multiple ways. Once the disproportionate impact of the epidemic was revealed to the American political and financial elite, many began to regard the rising death toll less as a national emergency than as an inconvenience. Temporary measures meant to prevent the spread of the disease by restricting movement, mandating the wearing of masks, or barring large social gatherings have become the foulest tyranny. The lives of workers at the front lines of the pandemic—such as meatpackers, transportation workers, and grocery clerks—have been deemed so worthless that legislators want to immunize their employers from liability even as they force them to work under unsafe conditions. ...
:reading: :reading: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ng/611389/

I duplicated this post in the Floyd thread in case anyone is only following one of the two.

:namaste:
Kim

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:39 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:24 am
On a rather different aspect, here's a long read about the intersection of the pandemic and the riots - no, not the likelihood that the riots will cause a big spike in COVID, though it probably will, but in underlying causes of both.
The Coronavirus Was an Emergency Until Trump Found Out Who Was Dying

The pandemic has exposed the bitter terms of our racial contract, which deems certain lives of greater value than others.

The underlying assumptions of white innocence and black guilt are all part of what the philosopher Charles Mills calls the “racial contract.” If the social contract is the implicit agreement among members of a society to follow the rules—for example, acting lawfully, adhering to the results of elections, and contesting the agreed-upon rules by nonviolent means—then the racial contract is a codicil rendered in invisible ink, one stating that the rules as written do not apply to nonwhite people in the same way.

The racial contract is not partisan—it guides staunch conservatives and sensitive liberals alike—but it works most effectively when it remains imperceptible to its beneficiaries. As long as it is invisible, members of society can proceed as though the provisions of the social contract apply equally to everyone. But when an injustice pushes the racial contract into the open, it forces people to choose whether to embrace, contest, or deny its existence. Video evidence of unjustified shootings of black people is so jarring in part because it exposes the terms of the racial contract so vividly. But as the process in the Arbery case shows, the racial contract most often operates unnoticed, relying on Americans to have an implicit understanding of who is bound by the rules, and who is exempt from them. ...

The coronavirus epidemic has rendered the racial contract visible in multiple ways. Once the disproportionate impact of the epidemic was revealed to the American political and financial elite, many began to regard the rising death toll less as a national emergency than as an inconvenience. Temporary measures meant to prevent the spread of the disease by restricting movement, mandating the wearing of masks, or barring large social gatherings have become the foulest tyranny. The lives of workers at the front lines of the pandemic—such as meatpackers, transportation workers, and grocery clerks—have been deemed so worthless that legislators want to immunize their employers from liability even as they force them to work under unsafe conditions. ...
:reading: :reading: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ng/611389/

I duplicated this post in the Floyd thread in case anyone is only following one of the two.

:namaste:
Kim
Did you know epidemiologists actually track racism and use viral based models on it's destruction? Most countries unspoken policy is to sacrifice the underclass and ding dongs who don't understand germs, not just America. As I posted earlier capitalism needs winners and losers. In America it is African Americans, in Canada the indigenous, Europe the Roma, etc. Would you be surprised that other countries are just better at covering it up? The unspoken goal is to get essential workers and those who are economically forced to not socially distance to get infected now. Then our next lockdown will work much better as some people spread more than others. All we have to do is sacrifice a few of the poor.
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Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 pm

Gotta have the time, luxury and wealth to think like that.

Is the dinner party, cocaine snorting chattering classes re hashing of the tradegy of the commons argument.

Regards

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:27 pm

Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 pm
Gotta have the time, luxury and wealth to think like that.

Is the dinner party, cocaine snorting chattering classes re hashing of the tradegy of the commons argument.

Regards
Unemployment is over 20%. We have time now.

tkp67
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by tkp67 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:38 pm

Interesting declaration from China. How opportune and convenient.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... medium=RSS

Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:00 pm

Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:27 pm
Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 pm
Gotta have the time, luxury and wealth to think like that.

Is the dinner party, cocaine snorting chattering classes re hashing of the tradegy of the commons argument.

Regards
Unemployment is over 20%. We have time now.

:lol:
yes but not the wealth or luxury, and really giving those in positions of office way too much credibility in handling the way out of these situations. Plus I agree that the organic evolution argument of covid 19 does not pass the smells right test.


Regards

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Nemo
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Nemo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:13 pm

Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:00 pm
Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:27 pm
Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:58 pm
Gotta have the time, luxury and wealth to think like that.

Is the dinner party, cocaine snorting chattering classes re hashing of the tradegy of the commons argument.

Regards
Unemployment is over 20%. We have time now.

:lol:
yes but not the wealth or luxury, and really giving those in positions of office way too much credibility in handling the way out of these situations. Plus I agree that the organic evolution argument of covid 19 does not pass the smells right test.


Regards
The narrative of American exceptionalism and working hard to make a good living break down very fast when hard working people are hungry and the rich are looting billions with no repercussions. This is just the beginning. Seen this in lots of countries. You'll see. Radicalizing people costs nothing now.
tkp67 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:38 pm
Interesting declaration from China. How opportune and convenient.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... medium=RSS
The human race's best chance at survival is removing by force both China and America's corrupt oligarchs and then chopping you up like Germany after WWII. Your inevitable war and colonial ambitions doom us all.
Last edited by Nemo on Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:16 pm

Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:13 pm
Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:00 pm
Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:27 pm

Unemployment is over 20%. We have time now.

:lol:
yes but not the wealth or luxury, and really giving those in positions of office way too much credibility in handling the way out of these situations. Plus I agree that the organic evolution argument of covid 19 does not pass the smells right test.


Regards
The narrative of American exceptionalism and working hard to make a good living break down very fast when hard working people are hungry and the rich are looting billions with no repercussions. This is just the beginning. Seen this in lots of countries. You'll see. Radicalizing people costs nothing now.
Was wondering lately if Americans should hit a pause button and call for emergency constitutional convention?

Regards

tkp67
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by tkp67 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:41 pm

Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:13 pm
Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:00 pm
Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:27 pm

Unemployment is over 20%. We have time now.

:lol:
yes but not the wealth or luxury, and really giving those in positions of office way too much credibility in handling the way out of these situations. Plus I agree that the organic evolution argument of covid 19 does not pass the smells right test.


Regards
The narrative of American exceptionalism and working hard to make a good living break down very fast when hard working people are hungry and the rich are looting billions with no repercussions. This is just the beginning. Seen this in lots of countries. You'll see. Radicalizing people costs nothing now.
tkp67 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:38 pm
Interesting declaration from China. How opportune and convenient.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... medium=RSS
The human race's best chance at survival is removing by force both China and America's corrupt oligarchs and then chopping you up like Germany after WWII. Your inevitable war and colonial ambitions doom us all.
I wish I had ownership over all this mess as if it where mine. All I control is this country is my vote and my virtue.

Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:35 am

tkp67 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:41 pm
Nemo wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:13 pm
Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:00 pm


:lol:
yes but not the wealth or luxury, and really giving those in positions of office way too much credibility in handling the way out of these situations. Plus I agree that the organic evolution argument of covid 19 does not pass the smells right test.


Regards
The narrative of American exceptionalism and working hard to make a good living break down very fast when hard working people are hungry and the rich are looting billions with no repercussions. This is just the beginning. Seen this in lots of countries. You'll see. Radicalizing people costs nothing now.
tkp67 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:38 pm
Interesting declaration from China. How opportune and convenient.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... medium=RSS
The human race's best chance at survival is removing by force both China and America's corrupt oligarchs and then chopping you up like Germany after WWII. Your inevitable war and colonial ambitions doom us all.
I wish I had ownership over all this mess as if it where mine. All I control is this country is my vote and my virtue.
Right, I think it's important that we understand medias playbook that's being rolled out over the pandemic reporting. It's become less and less science based and increasingly more partisan hackery. During this pandemic we've seen a shift from lockdown orders, to open embrace of defiance of authorative orders. Team freedom when it was citizens concerned with government over reach into private citizens lives was condemned. Yet now the same medi decrying white nationalists during protests, are praising recent protests and riots as for the greater good, pandemic lockdown be damned. Do as we say, not as we do.

I'm just a dude trying to get through this mess in the best way possible, I have no skin in the game apart from my health and wellbeing, I personally know people who have died of covid 19, But if the hipocracy is not blatant to anyone paying half attention. I just need facts of science, not group think or woke politics at this time in an election year. Get the politics out of directing science policy, and back to how that neutral science discipline directs the political policy.

Ok rant off for now.

Regards

krish5
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by krish5 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:05 pm

Danny, thanks for sharing that, i feel exactly the same way. You summarized this well!

Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:33 pm

Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:35 am

Right, I think it's important that we understand medias playbook that's being rolled out over the pandemic reporting. It's become less and less science based and increasingly more partisan hackery. During this pandemic we've seen a shift from lockdown orders, to open embrace of defiance of authorative orders. Team freedom when it was citizens concerned with government over reach into private citizens lives was condemned. Yet now the same medi decrying white nationalists during protests, are praising recent protests and riots as for the greater good, pandemic lockdown be damned. Do as we say, not as we do.
Well, no. What you say here is not accurate. All the news sources I frequent (NYT, etc.) repeatedly discuss the fact that the protests are going to cause massive spikes in covid-19 infection rates around the country. They will be hitting the hospitals this week.

As for the shifting factscape, this is a novel virus that has never before infected humans. We have barely had time for a comprehensive study about how much damage this virus can cause, how it does so, etc. Science does not keep up with events. It can't.


Get the politics out of directing science policy, and back to how that neutral science discipline directs the political policy.
Well, tell that to the GOP, the main deniers of climate change, covid, you name it.

Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:32 pm

I typed a refutation, then deleted. Wondering where the penchant and contrarian arguments of both left and right leaves space for the common sense and reasonable quiet centered majority?
Scratching their heads probably wondering wtf is going on.


Regards
Last edited by Danny on Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Danny
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Danny » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:41 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:33 pm

Well, tell that to the GOP, the main deniers of climate change, covid, you name it.
Remind me what denier is code for?

Regards

Malcolm
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Re: What are you doing about the coronavirus?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:45 pm

Danny wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:32 pm
I typed a refutation, then deleted. Wondering where the penchant and contrarian arguments of both left and right leaves space for the common sense and reasonable quiet centered majority?
Its pretty simple. Trump is an incompetent fool; he did not act, as a result of his inaction, more than 200K people will have died in the US by Sept. As long as there is no vaccine, and people are not socially distancing, taking correct measures to prevent infections, etc., we are looking at 25k deaths a month for the foreseeable future.

Assuming we don't get our shit together, covid-19 will take a million lives in the US before it is all over.

Climate change, habitat destruction, etc., is nothing to be MOR about. For example, one of the root causes of the explosion of Lyme disease is that when the passenger pigeons were all slaughtered, this caused an explosion in the white-foot mouse population, since the seeds that have previously mostly been consumed by the pigeons were not consumed by mice, in addition to increasing pressure on forests in the NE through suburban developments.

Shit is getting worse and worse. Common sense indicates it is sensible to get louder and louder about this shit.

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