Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

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Aemilius
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Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Aemilius » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:16 pm



Do we need a cause or explanation? All things or substances are empty.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Ayu
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Ayu » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:46 pm

Therefore one shouldn't believe anything. ;)
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:

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Grigoris
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:11 pm

I can turn water and wine into urine, if you give me an hour or so.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Fa Dao
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Fa Dao » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:15 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:11 pm
I can turn water and wine into urine, if you give me an hour or so.
meh..youre young..give it a few years and just thinking about water or wine makes you have to go :crying:
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Queequeg
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Queequeg » Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:21 pm

Pen and Teller analyze the trick after.

Compartments.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:06 pm

Nice trick. Reminds me that I wanted to change some water into tea.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

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Aemilius
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Aemilius » Sat May 02, 2020 1:13 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:21 pm
Pen and Teller analyze the trick after.

Compartments.
We are shown that the pot is an ordinary pot, and then a drink is chosen arbitrarily from a cocktailbook, it can't be "compartments".
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Dan74
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Dan74 » Sat May 02, 2020 1:17 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:13 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:21 pm
Pen and Teller analyze the trick after.

Compartments.
We are shown that the pot is an ordinary pot, and then a drink is chosen arbitrarily from a cocktailbook, it can't be "compartments".
Why do you need to believe in magic, Aemilius?

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Ayu
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Ayu » Sat May 02, 2020 3:21 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:16 pm
...

Do we need a cause or explanation? All things or substances are empty.
Watch an explanation anyhow, here from 6:18
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:

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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Queequeg » Sat May 02, 2020 3:28 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:13 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:21 pm
Pen and Teller analyze the trick after.

Compartments.
We are shown that the pot is an ordinary pot, and then a drink is chosen arbitrarily from a cocktailbook, it can't be "compartments".
The magician admits at the end that Pen and Teller know how he did the trick. Sigh.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Aemilius
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Aemilius » Sat May 02, 2020 5:26 pm

Ayu wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:21 pm
Aemilius wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:16 pm
...

Do we need a cause or explanation? All things or substances are empty.
Watch an explanation anyhow, here from 6:18
That's alright, but in the Penn & Teller show Moser asks a woman to check the glasses that they have no powders or chemicals. Moreover Moser doesn't hide the bottoms of the glasses with his hand. Your explanation fails.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Grigoris
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Grigoris » Sat May 02, 2020 7:36 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:17 pm
Why do you need to believe in magic, Aemilius?
Because he is the one born on the particular day? :shrug:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Aemilius
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Aemilius » Sun May 03, 2020 8:16 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:17 pm
Aemilius wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:13 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:21 pm
Pen and Teller analyze the trick after.

Compartments.
We are shown that the pot is an ordinary pot, and then a drink is chosen arbitrarily from a cocktailbook, it can't be "compartments".
Why do you need to believe in magic, Aemilius?
You don't have to, but there are laws in the universe that govern unusual or weird phenomena. These things exist. It is little bit complicated. I am sure these secret laws are made use of in advertising, politics, military, etc... These laws are esoteric, even in Buddhism, you can look into Buddhaghosha's Path of Purification in the topic supernormal powers and there is more than is usually told about them anywhere in the public Dharma. Magic or magical phenomena are part of reality, they exist also in areas where they are not called by that name. The effects are not always so dramatic, but even if it exists to a small degree, it exists. The thing is that we don't need to be fools, ordinary ignorant people (prithagjanas), the society has developed in that field also, more than is publicly admitted, and this area is part of modern esoteric knowledge. Is this enough?
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Dan74
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Dan74 » Sun May 03, 2020 11:56 am

Aemilius wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:16 am
Dan74 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:17 pm
Aemilius wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:13 pm


We are shown that the pot is an ordinary pot, and then a drink is chosen arbitrarily from a cocktailbook, it can't be "compartments".
Why do you need to believe in magic, Aemilius?
You don't have to, but there are laws in the universe that govern unusual or weird phenomena. These things exist. It is little bit complicated. I am sure these secret laws are made use of in advertising, politics, military, etc... These laws are esoteric, even in Buddhism, you can look into Buddhaghosha's Path of Purification in the topic supernormal powers and there is more than is usually told about them anywhere in the public Dharma. Magic or magical phenomena are part of reality, they exist also in areas where they are not called by that name. The effects are not always so dramatic, but even if it exists to a small degree, it exists. The thing is that we don't need to be fools, ordinary ignorant people (prithagjanas), the society has developed in that field also, more than is publicly admitted, and this area is part of modern esoteric knowledge. Is this enough?
There many indeed be such things, but you post a video of a professional magician who admits that his performance was an elaborate trick (like every professional magician's performance). And you appear to claim it as evidence of the supernatural. It smacks of a peculiar sort of obsession. Whether unusual or weird phenomena not governed by the known laws of physics exist, they are not what the Dharma is about. And as far as Dharma practice goes, any fascination with them is as best a distraction and at worst a preoccupation with power and a deeply egoic pursuit.

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Grigoris
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Grigoris » Sun May 03, 2020 3:35 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:16 am
...you can look into Buddhaghosha's Path of Purification in the topic supernormal powers and there is more than is usually told about them anywhere in the public Dharma.
Nowhere in "The Path of Purification" is there mention of cheap parlor tricks practiced for the sake of entertainment and making money. NOWHERE. You are seriously deluded if you think there is.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Aemilius » Mon May 04, 2020 9:23 am

Dan74 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 11:56 am
Aemilius wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:16 am
Dan74 wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 1:17 pm


Why do you need to believe in magic, Aemilius?
You don't have to, but there are laws in the universe that govern unusual or weird phenomena. These things exist. It is little bit complicated. I am sure these secret laws are made use of in advertising, politics, military, etc... These laws are esoteric, even in Buddhism, you can look into Buddhaghosha's Path of Purification in the topic supernormal powers and there is more than is usually told about them anywhere in the public Dharma. Magic or magical phenomena are part of reality, they exist also in areas where they are not called by that name. The effects are not always so dramatic, but even if it exists to a small degree, it exists. The thing is that we don't need to be fools, ordinary ignorant people (prithagjanas), the society has developed in that field also, more than is publicly admitted, and this area is part of modern esoteric knowledge. Is this enough?
There many indeed be such things, but you post a video of a professional magician who admits that his performance was an elaborate trick (like every professional magician's performance). And you appear to claim it as evidence of the supernatural. It smacks of a peculiar sort of obsession. Whether unusual or weird phenomena not governed by the known laws of physics exist, they are not what the Dharma is about. And as far as Dharma practice goes, any fascination with them is as best a distraction and at worst a preoccupation with power and a deeply egoic pursuit.
Be very carefull, he only admits that they know how it was done. What I am saying is that "supernatural" is also a trick, or that there are certain laws behind it, which is in line with what the Buddha taught. In his time the explanation was that a magical thing was produced by a spell, like the Ratna spell, which is mentioned by the Tathagata. If it is produced through a spell, it is not supernatural, was the common thinking at that time, and therefore it usually does not lead to conversion, the Tathagata continues. This incident is some other sutta than the Kevaddha sutta, which is well known for the discussion concerning the supernormal phenomena.
Dharma is how things arise and how they cease. It is like the knowledge concerning atoms, elements and chemistry. It is not in itself egoic or nonegoic, it can afford new possibilities, like chemistry has done. You can make fertilizers & medicine or gunpowder, napalm, etc..
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Dan74
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Dan74 » Mon May 04, 2020 1:02 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 9:23 am
Dan74 wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 11:56 am
Aemilius wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:16 am


You don't have to, but there are laws in the universe that govern unusual or weird phenomena. These things exist. It is little bit complicated. I am sure these secret laws are made use of in advertising, politics, military, etc... These laws are esoteric, even in Buddhism, you can look into Buddhaghosha's Path of Purification in the topic supernormal powers and there is more than is usually told about them anywhere in the public Dharma. Magic or magical phenomena are part of reality, they exist also in areas where they are not called by that name. The effects are not always so dramatic, but even if it exists to a small degree, it exists. The thing is that we don't need to be fools, ordinary ignorant people (prithagjanas), the society has developed in that field also, more than is publicly admitted, and this area is part of modern esoteric knowledge. Is this enough?
There many indeed be such things, but you post a video of a professional magician who admits that his performance was an elaborate trick (like every professional magician's performance). And you appear to claim it as evidence of the supernatural. It smacks of a peculiar sort of obsession. Whether unusual or weird phenomena not governed by the known laws of physics exist, they are not what the Dharma is about. And as far as Dharma practice goes, any fascination with them is as best a distraction and at worst a preoccupation with power and a deeply egoic pursuit.
Be very carefull, he only admits that they know how it was done. What I am saying is that "supernatural" is also a trick, or that there are certain laws behind it, which is in line with what the Buddha taught. In his time the explanation was that a magical thing was produced by a spell, like the Ratna spell, which is mentioned by the Tathagata. If it is produced through a spell, it is not supernatural, was the common thinking at that time, and therefore it usually does not lead to conversion, the Tathagata continues. This incident is some other sutta than the Kevaddha sutta, which is well known for the discussion concerning the supernormal phenomena.
Dharma is how things arise and how they cease. It is like the knowledge concerning atoms, elements and chemistry. It is not in itself egoic or nonegoic, it can afford new possibilities, like chemistry has done. You can make fertilizers & medicine or gunpowder, napalm, etc..
I don't know if you are familiar with Penn & Teller (the two magicians at the show), but they are well known as atheists and sceptics of all supernatural claims. And here supernatural means anything outside known laws of physics, not some esoteric magic.

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Queequeg
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Queequeg » Mon May 04, 2020 1:40 pm

Aemilius, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Aemilius
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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by Aemilius » Tue May 05, 2020 8:41 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 1:40 pm
Aemilius, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Great idea, thanks, what would I do with it? I don't own the river that is flowing 30 m away from the house where I live. Yesterday I saw a flock swans flying to the north-east, about 12 of them.

My house https://www.google.com/maps/place/Karja ... 26.5800264
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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Re: Austrian Magician Wolfgang Moser turns Water into Wine and other beverages

Post by humble.student » Tue May 05, 2020 9:14 am

Aemilius wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 8:41 am
Yesterday I saw a flock swans flying to the north-east, about 12 of them.
Did you at least try to calculate the secret meaning behind this phenomenon by using the Book of Changes?

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