Enlightened Society

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
Steel
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Steel »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:06 pm
Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:43 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:28 am

People with PhD's who cannot find jobs in their fields, and so must make lattes and cappucinos and wait on tables.
Yes, It would truly suck to spend so much money and years in college and not get the job you are looking for.
Yes. And, to bring up Danny's point, since they never learned how to make anything useful, they can't even get a good "working class" job, with which to pay off their loans.

In reality, education should consist of both reading, etc., as well as learning the basics of useful things like farming, carpentry, plumbing etc. As for myself, I am told I am an excellent cook. I worked in food industry for many years when I was in my late teens and 20's. If I need to get a job flipping burgers, no problem. I am something of an expert on that subject alone. Never been afraid to work, and though I come from an upper middle class family, I never graduated from a western school, not one, unless you count 6th grade. So I worked a lot of "shit" jobs. Dishwashing, construction, prep cooking, etc., etc.
For sure. Teaching practical skills should be mandatory in all schools. There are loads of good paying skilled labor jobs that are available for young people but they won't take them because of stigma. Everyone is meant to be a college professor, doctor, or scientist.
Pero
Posts: 2346
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Pero »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:30 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:20 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:06 pm I never graduated from a western school, not one, unless you count 6th grade.
Why not? :smile:
Oppositional personality disorder.
I'm actually not sure if you're maybe joking but for some reason I can totally imagine it. :smile:
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
Malcolm
Posts: 32644
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:30 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:20 pm
Why not? :smile:
Oppositional personality disorder.
I'm actually not sure if you're maybe joking but for some reason I can totally imagine it. :smile:

Frankly, school bored me to tears. I generally finished reading all my books by the third of fourth week of school (not math though, not a strong point, and I lacked patience for it). And just sat bored in class for the rest of the year.
Pero
Posts: 2346
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Pero »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:09 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:30 pm

Oppositional personality disorder.
I'm actually not sure if you're maybe joking but for some reason I can totally imagine it. :smile:

Frankly, school bored me to tears. I generally finished reading all my books by the third of fourth week of school (not math though, not a strong point, and I lacked patience for it). And just sat bored in class for the rest of the year.
Gotcha.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
Steel
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Steel »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:09 pm
Pero wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:37 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:30 pm

Oppositional personality disorder.
I'm actually not sure if you're maybe joking but for some reason I can totally imagine it. :smile:

Frankly, school bored me to tears. I generally finished reading all my books by the third of fourth week of school (not math though, not a strong point, and I lacked patience for it). And just sat bored in class for the rest of the year.
Too smart for your own good? :tongue:
Do you wish you achieved more in life?
Malcolm
Posts: 32644
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:27 pm Do you wish you achieved more in life?
Frankly, my achievements, quite minor though they may be, are completely beyond what I could have imagined 40, 30, 20, or even 10 years ago.
Steel
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Steel »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:05 pm
Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:27 pm Do you wish you achieved more in life?
Frankly, my achievements, quite minor though they may be, are completely beyond what I could have imagined 40, 30, 20, or even 10 years ago.
That's good to hear. I think at the end of the day all these worldly achievements don't mean anything even if you're the ceo of some fortune 500 company. Nothing is more important than using this rare human life to engage in spiritual pursuits.
Malcolm
Posts: 32644
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:13 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:05 pm
Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:27 pm Do you wish you achieved more in life?
Frankly, my achievements, quite minor though they may be, are completely beyond what I could have imagined 40, 30, 20, or even 10 years ago.
That's good to hear. I think at the end of the day all these worldly achievements don't mean anything even if you're the ceo of some fortune 500 company. Nothing is more important than using this rare human life to engage in spiritual pursuits.
I wasn’t talking about worldly achievements. I don’t have any of those at all.
Steel
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Steel »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 pm
I wasn’t talking about worldly achievements. I don’t have any of those at all.
If you're referring to some high spiritual attainment then I tip off my hat to you. :bow:
Malcolm
Posts: 32644
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:57 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 pm
I wasn’t talking about worldly achievements. I don’t have any of those at all.
If you're referring to some high spiritual attainment then I tip off my hat to you. :bow:
Nope, but I have managed to translate and publish five important Dharna Books in the past five years, and I have three more coming out in the next two years.
User avatar
Shotenzenjin
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:23 pm

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Shotenzenjin »

seems to me the better option is to create dharma communes where one can seek and practice Buddhadharma. start small and build something that offers an alternative to the capitalist flesh market of the rat race to the grave.
n8pee
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:08 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by n8pee »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:52 pm
Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:57 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 pm
I wasn’t talking about worldly achievements. I don’t have any of those at all.
If you're referring to some high spiritual attainment then I tip off my hat to you. :bow:
Nope, but I have managed to translate and publish five important Dharna Books in the past five years, and I have three more coming out in the next two years.
Hat's off to you sir. Or as I would say in my day-to-day: you the man!
User avatar
PeterC
Posts: 2630
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by PeterC »

Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:57 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 pm
I wasn’t talking about worldly achievements. I don’t have any of those at all.
If you're referring to some high spiritual attainment then I tip off my hat to you. :bow:
Sometimes, when you're having a conversation, it's helpful to understand a little about the other party
User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 11044
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:52 pm
Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:57 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 pm
I wasn’t talking about worldly achievements. I don’t have any of those at all.
If you're referring to some high spiritual attainment then I tip off my hat to you. :bow:
Nope, but I have managed to translate and publish five important Dharna Books in the past five years, and I have three more coming out in the next two years.
:applause:

As the Jews sing on Passover - "Da da yenu, da da yenu, da da yenu, da yenu da yenu!" "it would have been enough."
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
confusedlayman
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:28 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by confusedlayman »

During buddhas time... monestry was enlightened socity
Malcolm
Posts: 32644
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

confusedlayman wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:42 pm During buddhas time... monestry was enlightened socity
No, if this were true, there would have been no need for so many vinaya rules. Most of Buddha's disciples were ignorant schmucks just like us.
User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 11044
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:40 pm
Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:37 pm Off spin topic to discuss big ideas for an enlightened society. Let’s use the Buddhist teachings as a framework.
Buddha never did. That wasn't his job. You cannot have an awakened society with people who are not awake. The best one can hope for is society based on reasonable secular ethics concerning the economy, governance, education, and so forth.
I think there is room for application of ideas and methods we find in Buddhist education to a secular context, though. Secular ethics do not exist in a vacuum. They rely on wisdom traditions to inform the values. We handicap ourselves if we draw too strict a line between Dharma and the secular world. At the same time, I think Thurman has a point when he suggested that the Buddha specifically molded the monastic sangha to stay out of secular matters as a matter of survival. As we've seen over and over, when Buddhist institutions became too closely associated with secular power, they suffered alongside their patrons when secular power shifted.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
Steel
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 7:14 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Steel »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:52 pm
Steel wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:57 pm
Malcolm wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:41 pm
I wasn’t talking about worldly achievements. I don’t have any of those at all.
If you're referring to some high spiritual attainment then I tip off my hat to you. :bow:
Nope, but I have managed to translate and publish five important Dharna Books in the past five years, and I have three more coming out in the next two years.
Cool. keep pumping out those books and spreading the dharma. :thumbsup:
Malcolm
Posts: 32644
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Malcolm »

Queequeg wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:22 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:40 pm
Danny wrote: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:37 pm Off spin topic to discuss big ideas for an enlightened society. Let’s use the Buddhist teachings as a framework.
Buddha never did. That wasn't his job. You cannot have an awakened society with people who are not awake. The best one can hope for is society based on reasonable secular ethics concerning the economy, governance, education, and so forth.
I think there is room for application of ideas and methods we find in Buddhist education to a secular context, though. Secular ethics do not exist in a vacuum. They rely on wisdom traditions to inform the values.
What wisdom tradition did John Rawls rely on? Hume?
We handicap ourselves if we draw too strict a line between Dharma and the secular world.
Come on man, the establishment clause. The whole thrust of the Scottish Enlightenment was to get religion out of ethics.
User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 11044
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Enlightened Society

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:22 pm What wisdom tradition did John Rawls rely on? Hume?
Judeo-Christian and its derivatives.
We handicap ourselves if we draw too strict a line between Dharma and the secular world.
Come on man, the establishment clause. The whole thrust of the Scottish Enlightenment was to get religion out of ethics.
The Establishment Clause reads,

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Its interpreted to mean that no church could be the official church of the US government. It doesn't mean people can't bring their religious or spiritual background to inform their participation in civil society. I don't think there was any consensus to remove religion from public life in America.

Gus, you go too far.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta
Post Reply

Return to “Lounge”