End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

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Lhug-Pa
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End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:27 pm

padma norbu wrote:I was recently watching some History channel garbagery, as I sometimes do, and found an "investigation" of the Georgia Guidestones. Well, actually, it was a good investigation, although it is basically trying to be pretty entertaining and it's obvious. They basically concluded the Georgia Guidestones were nothing sinister and that there was no evidence of anything to worry about, really. However, in the process, they did talk to some astro-scientist about the sun and he did say that larger than normal solar flares would be happening in 2012. Basically, the people who claim the world is going to be massively changed and many lives lost say that it will be a natural event, somehow caused by the sun and the earth, with both coasts sinking into the ocean. As a NYer, I will be drowned in a year from now according to this theory, which would suck.

Not TERRIBLY worried about this, but actually, I would prefer to be out of NY around mid-December straight through Jan 5th or so just in case. Would be a horrible way to die, really. I doubt I could go peacefully and not be thrown into a crappy rebirth under such circumstances.

Just found this:
"The Tibetan calendar is so similar to the Mayan that traditional scholars now speculate that they share a common origin."
from http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_3.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...any truth to this? Or just someone taking huge liberties to try to tie everything together?

I know that you're no Samael Aun Weor fan, however you might be interested in some of the many things he taught about regarding the topics you're referring to here i.e. the Mayan-Tibetan connection and the endtimes prophecies of this cycle related to the Mayan Calendar.

Just for quick reference, Samael Aun Weor wrote that the actual physical destruction of this earthly cycle is related to the Katun of the Mayan Calendar sometime between 2040 and 2500.

The earlier years mentioned such as 1999, 2000, 2001, 2012, etc. are from what I understand closer to the Baktun (December 21 2012) which are merely leading up to the Katun cycle, the latter being the time of the actual destruction. So for 2012 (Baktun), most likely no major destruction, etc. However from what I also understand, there actually will be much physical conflagration and destruction on this planet at the turn of the Katun somewhere between 2040 and 2500 A.D.

(I've also noticed that you've mentioned "the Rosicrucians" and the Georgia guidestones. As a sidenote Samael Aun Weor wrote that the 'A.M.O.R.C.' are pseudo-Rosicrucians, and that the actual real Rosicrucians no longer operate in the physical world under that name, let alone give lessons and/or initiations by mail-correspondence. If any of this means anything to you. Not sure if the Georgia guidestones have any connection to Rosicrucians, pseudo or otherwise, as I don't know very much about them. I do think that the teachings of Eliphas Levi, Rudolf Steiner, Arnold Krumm-Heller (Huiracocha), Franz Hartmann, Dion Fortune, Max Heindel, Manly P. Hall, Samael Aun Weor, and maybe even Paul Foster Case, do have a connection to the actual Rosicrucians. Whereas Papus, Aleister Crowley, and Spencer Lewis, on the other hand, not so much.)


Links:

The Egyptian-Mayan Relationship

Final Catastrophe

The End of the Kali Yuga

Alcyone and Negative Emotions

A New Heaven and Earth: Purification Day of the Hopi Prophecies

Kabbalah of the Mayan Mysteries: Root Races


Question:

Are there any Buddhist scriptures that mention the Precession of the Equinoxes?

Sutra, Tantra, Abhidharma, Kalachakra, Dzogchen?


:reading:
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:48 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Grigoris
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:55 pm

:zzz:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Post by ronnewmexico » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:43 am

I looked into this many years ago, the mayan thing.
So it is not fresh but to my dim recollection there is a reference to a turning of things not a theist end time.
The turning refers to the ending of a age and begining of another.
The date may be dec 21 2012, or dec 12 2012,when this will occur. Though of course our calendar is not used, so it also is a bit of a approximation.
Some have noted that the earths gravational field changes spontaneously at times. it has in the past done so repeatedly. Such has been theorized as the equilivent of this Mayan event by some.. others contend a real change in how things are but not a theist end time.
No end time for human perhaps a changing of their impact or role in things...

more in that line is the mayan dates. Theists abscribe end time to it as that is their training and inclination.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Post by Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:03 am

Yeah Cycles, not a linear beginning and end thing as with conventional contemporary Christianism.

The turn of the Baktun (2012) cycle may or may not come with drastic changes, may be only very subtle changes.

The turn of the Katun cycle (2040-ish) is however supposed to coincide with more drastic changes.


From the The End of the Kali Yuga lecture linked in my previous post:


[i]The End of the Kali Yuga[/i] wrote:Image
Image
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ronnewmexico
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Post by ronnewmexico » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:30 am

Well that makes sense to me.
Peoples just for one do not appreciate the implications of global warming.
The melting of the northern Ice cap not so signiiicant as that is ice in water...your ice melts in your cup your cup does not overflow.
Melting of the greenland ice cap...and the melting most probably not to occur but a sliding of enormous amounts of ice beyond our comprehension actually...into the ocean.. and then melting.

by some predictions a rapid rise of 6 feet or more of sea level. And as 90% of the worlds population live within that six feet close to or upon shores(as cities were built by sea commerce routes in the initial).....the implications for the thing of human are astounding.
Peoples think we seeing it now, this little island or that place being eroded in storm....it has just begun and we are seeing just the very most modest effects of that thing...inches as opposed to meters of change.....

Yes they are that dim :smile: those that have the run of things profit power no concern for implications or the future.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:12 am

Guys, this is a Mahayana forum and we are discussing end times propaganda in BUDDHISM. Now while I don't doubt that the stuff you are discussing is of interest to you, maybe, just maybe, it should be split off into a seperate discusiion in the lounge forum?
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Dechen Norbu
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Re: End times [...] in Buddhism - views from other beliefs

Post by Dechen Norbu » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:10 pm

Topic split.
You can continue to discuss views about this subject from other religions/sects/cults/ beliefs here.

:anjali:

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Malcolm
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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:51 pm

padma norbu wrote:
Just found this:
"The Tibetan calendar is so similar to the Mayan that traditional scholars now speculate that they share a common origin."
from http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_3.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Tibean calendar is based on calculations in the Kalacakra tantra, so, no relationship to Mayan calendar in anyway.

N
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:40 pm

I was just reading a news article about the Mayan calender and it said (it's an excerpt from the article, translated from Greek):
...A few days earlier the National Institute of Anthropology and History of Mexico reported that the rumors surrounding a catastrophic event at the end of December 2012 were a western misinterpretation of the Mayan calender.

According to the institute only two of 15,000 recorded texts refer to the date 2012 and none of these prophesise the end of the world.

A statement by the Institute read: "Western messianic thought has distorted the world view (cosmic theory) of the Maya"
http://news247.gr/health/epistimi/oi_ma ... 21828.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently the date refers to the end of a time cycle rather than to the end of time: " a reflection of the day of creation", the return of one of their pantheon of gods, Bolon Giote, the god of creation and war.

So unpack the survival shelter people, it was just another messianic false alarm!
:namaste:
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

alwayson
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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by alwayson » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:42 pm

Lhug-Pa,

How do you reconcile the basis of Western esoteriscism, kabbalah, with the the fact that everything is dependently originated in Buddhism?

Its simply impossible.

Any "Higher Principle/Reality" would have to be dependently originated in order to interact with our universe, otherwise it would be like trying to play the latest Call of Duty on Windows 3.0.
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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:49 pm

alwayson wrote:How do you reconcile the basis of Western esoteriscism, kabbalah, with the the fact that everything is dependently originated in Buddhism?
Dissociative Identity Disorder? That would be one way to deal with it! :tongue:
Anyway, kabbalah is esoteric judaism, that makes it semitic, not western. I am sure there were esoteric traditions in the "west" well before esoteric judaism (13th century CE). Some examples I can think of would be: the Eleusinian Mysteries, Orphism and Dionysian cults which existed around the 14-15th century BCE.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:47 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
alwayson wrote:How do you reconcile the basis of Western esoteriscism, kabbalah, with the the fact that everything is dependently originated in Buddhism?
Dissociative Identity Disorder? That would be one way to deal with it! :tongue:
Anyway, kabbalah is esoteric judaism, that makes it semitic, not western. I am sure there were esoteric traditions in the "west" well before esoteric judaism (13th century CE). Some examples I can think of would be: the Eleusinian Mysteries, Orphism and Dionysian cults which existed around the 14-15th century BCE.
Kabbalah is esoteric Judaism with a strong shot of neo-platonic doctrine. Actually it is more neo-platonic than "semitic".

N
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:00 pm

Like I said, 2012 would be the turn of a Baktun; and the 'final catastrophe' of this cycle is at the turn of the Katun.

Even the Katun is not a 'final catastrophe' as in the ending of a major Kalpa or Mahamanvantara, but the end of a relatively minor Manvantara.

In the Gnostic teachings we study the Occult aspect of Kabbalah and not just the dead-letter (really, it is taught that the actual Occult teachings of any Religion are not even written down in the physical plane). For example "Kabbalah" is not only Hebrew; as the Khemetians, Sumerians, Dravidians, Phoenicians, etc. knew it long before the Hebrews did. Basically, the Gnostics recognize that all major Religions are originally from Bodhisattvas who understand Emptiness and Interdependent-Origination, and that they teach using skillful means according to time, place, culture, and the capacities of sentient beings. It's all tied together through the Ganapuja, which is most Sacred to the Gnostics, and as you know to the Vajrayana Initiates as well. This is why some form of Ganapuja is found in the Khemetian 'Mysteries' (see Gerald Massey) the Sumerian, the Christian, Occult Masonry, etc. Transmutation, Transformation, Transubstantiation.

Of course Buddhism teaches Emptiness/Interdependent Origination more explicitly than other Religions, however this doesn't mean that these teachings aren't found in the Occult dimension of other Religions. This being the case that Buddhism goes more directly to the heart of Dharma, one might ask why I even bother with other teachings; and my reply is that Buddhism, like Gnosis, originally encompassed all Knowledge, and not only things pertaining to 'Buddhism' proper. This is explained in Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's The Precious Vase, quoting Longchenpa, Jigme Lingpa, Jamgon Kongtrul, etc.

Manly P. Hall 33° implies that the Orphic 'Mysteries' are of Æthiopian, Khemetian, or Phoenician origin; and mentioned that Orpheus himself is described as having black/very-dark brown complexion.

Anyway, there's an interesting article on a Karma-Kagyu website (Dharma Fellowship) about the Universality of the Ganachakrapuja, going back to Sumer:

Wine and Meat Offerings

This apparently coincides with the Gnostics saying that Ganapuja was introduced by Melchizedek.

Namdrol

Thanks. I'd figured that the Kalachakra teachings would be the most likely to refer to the Precession of the Equinoxes.

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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by wisdom » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:01 pm

alwayson wrote:Lhug-Pa,

How do you reconcile the basis of Western esoteriscism, kabbalah, with the the fact that everything is dependently originated in Buddhism?

Its simply impossible.

Any "Higher Principle/Reality" would have to be dependently originated in order to interact with our universe, otherwise it would be like trying to play the latest Call of Duty on Windows 3.0.
Kabbalah is based on a successive emanation of forces. Beginning with "Nothingness", causes and effects arise and influence one another, including each other and acting upon each other. It continues in this fashion through four worlds. Each world is a different level of the manifestation/emanation of cause/effect. It begins with the level known as Emanation, then comes Creation, then Formation, and finally Action. Emanation is likened to the first causes of things, the emergence of the powers of reality. Creation is their effect on each other, causing them to form into more distinct principles and powers. Formation is when these principles begin to settle down into objects (IE: The changes become less rapid). Action is when these objects, which are now of the nature of aggregates, begin to act upon each other. The level of action, the fourth world, is what we would equate to what we experience on a daily basis. Its basically Karma as we know it now.

Another way to put it is that Emanation is the raw forces, Creation is the basic aggregates, Formation is the complicated aggregates, and Action is the final result of the complicated aggregates. Such a result is like the world we live in now.

Each world is composed of 10 causes/effects. Each of which include each other making 100, and each of those include each other making 1000. In all, there are at least 4000 such causes and effects. Yet some numbers go as high as 6000 depending on whether or not a 5th and 6th world is added, which happens in some schools of Kabbalistic thought. Those other two worlds are called the world of Adam Kadmon (the perfect man, something like Buddha nature) and the world of Atika Qadisha (Something like the primordial Buddha, literally it means "The Ancient Holy One").

Dependent Origination is not taught in the same way in Kabbalah as it is in Buddhism, but its still there and in quite a lot of detail. It breaks the forces of cause and effect up into 10 primary forces, but with all the aggregates of those forces goes up to 6000 as I previously mentioned. However the Middle Way is not taught at all. Kabbalists hold the view that things exist, that there is a creator and that the self/soul is eternal.

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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:07 pm

wisdom wrote:Atika Qadisha (Something like the primordial Buddha, literally it means "The Ancient Holy One").
No, nothing at all like Samantabhadra.

Kabbalah and Dzogchen could not be further removed from one another.

Kabbaha is basically a mysticized neo-platonical emanationalism, Dzogchen is not.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:25 pm

Well I would somewhat disagree Namdrol, in that "Kabbalah" would predate the written Zohar (and even the "Chaldean Book of Numbers"), and also predates Plato, Ammonius Saccas, Plotinus, Proclus, etc.; as implied in my previous post. If anything, "Kabbalah" would have its source in Samantabhadra/Samanatabhadri, and not only in the sense that everything does; but actully through a very ancient line of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that incarnated within various cultures over the millennia.

Wisdom

I wonder if the many qualities of the Ten Sephiroth (which literally means "Jewels" in Hebrew hmmm....) can be also be attributed to the Ten Mahavidyas (Rigpa Chenmo in Tibetan?) that were most likely originally taught about by the Dravidians?

Please see this post:

Rigpa and Mind/Body Connection

It's no secret that the Hebrew teachings took much from Indian Dharma, one way or another.
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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:27 pm

:alien:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:50 pm

gregkavarnos wrote: :zzz: :alien:
How is any of what we're discussing here much more "space cadet-ish" than the Sutras, Tantras, Shastras, Agamas, Upadeshas, etc. mentioning of Bodhisattvas receiving teachings from Buddhas in non-physical or suprasensible worlds, or Dzogchen teachings coming to planet Earth from other Solar-systems, etc.?

Neither are; but if you think so, well then that's fine. Just wanted to address your by-way-of-emoticon concerns. ;)
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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:58 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Well I would somewhat disagree Namdrol, in that "Kabbalah" would predate the written Zohar (and even the "Chaldean Book of Numbers"), and also predates Plato, Ammonius Saccas, Plotinus, Proclus, etc.

Nonsense.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: End of the Kali-Yuga and the Mayan-Tibetan Connection

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:01 pm

Dear Lhug-pa,

A basic difference is that Buddhists don't claim to have invented or are the source of everything that exists in every other esoteric/mystical tradition.

Anyway my :zzz: was in regards to the topic being off topic and irrelevant to the initial thread and my :alien: was basically a reaction to the mixed grill salad bar spirituality seeking you are engaging in. Eveything ever said may be relevant, but it certainly ain't useful to try and engage it all at the same time!
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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