Buddhist Hell seems a bit much

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futerko
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Re: Buddhist Hell seems a bit much

Post by futerko » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:18 am

Bristollad wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:01 am
futerko wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:25 pm
I've notice you use the word "useful" a lot. Would you describe yourself as a utilitarian?
No. I’ve never studied Western philosophy and what little I’ve read seemed of little use :tongue:
Perhaps if I had studied it, I would think differently. I’ve seen that some draw parallels between negative utilitarianism and Buddhism but I’m too uneducated to have a valid opinion.
Yes indeed, a lot of it is ridiculously over-complicated and with too much jargon. The Madhayamika did have a principle that their ideas should be expressed in plain language, but the 'plain language' of Sanskrit is still quite advanced, and a lot of Western academics seem to struggle to understand the view they describe.

The West seems obsessed with the concept of ground, it refuses to accept the the idea that all versions of reality have mythical origins - the Sanskrit/Tibetan response is to establish a kind of pole star by which to navigate, and which means that this lack of ground does not result in us being eternally lost (which is the very thing the West fears, chaos and a sort of 'anything goes' relativism).

So, on that basis, when you say that you are not doing some kind of "ultimate analysis" - this is the very problem the West has right now, and so often one reads the idea that - it's all just empty, therefore nothing can be said... as if there is simply no connection between the understanding of ultimate truth and our daily outlook on life.
may all beings be free from the delusion of humanism

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Matt J
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Re: Buddhist Hell seems a bit much

Post by Matt J » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:31 pm

Rather, the West was obsessed with it until the post-structuralist and post-modernist movement. Academically, the West has lost any sense of an objective truth. I would argue over the years this has filtered from the academy into popular consciousness, as evidenced in the “truth is what you say it is” that seems to be established in Western politics.

However, unlike Buddhism, the West has become nihilistic.
futerko wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:18 am
The West seems obsessed with the concept of ground, it refuses to accept the the idea that all versions of reality have mythical origins - the Sanskrit/Tibetan response is to establish a kind of pole star by which to navigate, and which means that this lack of ground does not result in us being eternally lost (which is the very thing the West fears, chaos and a sort of 'anything goes' relativism).
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

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well wisher
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Re: Buddhist Hell seems a bit much

Post by well wisher » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:25 pm

Are there any established theories about hell realm being coming in to place, due to primarily the "un-fitness" between an sentient being, and the properties of that world?

For example, on this world there are some people who regarding living like ascetic monks as "hell" to them due to lack of freedom and entertainment. But I disagree, as I personally find that if one gets used to it, it is actually an very peaceful and secure lifestyle, as long as one remains steadfast against the 3 root poisons: Greed, Hatred, and Ignorance.
Maybe one method to overcome hells is the "self mental adjustment" method, like setting one's standards really low, basically having no expectations at all. Then nothing would be seem as hell. Maybe this is one way to do so?

Another possible example: if you take Amitabha Buddhas' pureland (a.k.a. Sukhavati) and the 48 vows as its properties.This land would actually be HELL to a sentient being who is very selfish and abusive against others. Like a lazy tyrant who loves belittling others, and stealing credit or belongings from other people, ...etc.
Because vow #10 combined with #15, means it would be like a eternal imprisonment to such a being. since beings cannot do anything selfish and harmful against others. The only recourse is to leave, by that same latter clause in vow #15.
Vow 10
Provided I become a Buddha, if the beings of that country of mine should have arise in their minds the idea of selfishness and covetous thoughts, even with regard to their own bodies, then may I not attain the enlightenment.

Vow 15
Provided I become a Buddha, the life of the beings in that country of mine should be eternal, excepting by their own free will whenever they choose to pass away from life, otherwise may I not attain the enlightenment.

The other main point I want to make is that maybe there are too much occurrences of people complaining "oh this is hell", if some outcome does not fit their expectations. Too much hyperbole & exaggeration, and too much wants and desires.
On one hand, it seems like the concept of Hell might used a bit too much for scare-mongering and coercion purposes.
But on the other hand, it does not feel fair if selfish harm-doers are not punished and learn their lessons to correct such behaviour.
I am wondering what a good balance between such duality might be? :roll:

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