Buddha's Parinirvana

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Caoimhghín
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Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Caoimhghín »

In the Mahayana Parinirvana Sutra, does the Buddha actually ever get around to entering into Parinirvana? Is it after getting food poisoning from off meat like in the Pāli recension?

http://lirs.ru/do/Mahaparinirvana_Sutra ... e,2007.pdf

Which chapter, if it's anywhere in there?
savi saghara aṇica di, savi saghara dukha di, savi dhama aṇatva di:
yada paśadi cakhkṣuma tada nivinadi dukha eṣo mago viśodhia.

"All formations are inconstant," he said.
"All formations are stressful," he said.
"All phenomena are selfless," he said.
When one sees this, one becomes adverse to stress, and this is the path of purity.

(Gāndhārī Dharmapada fragments)
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Aemilius
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Aemilius »

I have also wondered about that. Then I read the very last chapter (plus the first seven chapters and a couple of chapters at random). In the last chapter the entering into parinirvana is not mentioned, how ever the idea is present in some sense. In the last chapter there are parallel themes to the Parinibbana sutta, like that Shakyamuni asks for Ananda and Ananda is then brought to the presence of the Tathagata. Etc...

End of Chapter 46, On Kaundinya:
"When this Dharma had been delivered, 10,000 Bodhisattvas attained the real mental image of one life, one-million-five-hundred Bodhisattvas attained the two-life Dharmadhatu, two-million-five-hundred Bodhisattvas attained to Ultimate Knowing, and 3,500 Bodhisattvas awoke to Ultimate Truth. This Ultimate Truth is also Paramartha-Sunyata, and also the Suramgama Samadhi. Forty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the All-Emptiness Samadhi. This all-Emptiness Samadhi is also called the Vast and Great Samadhi, and the Knowledge-Impression Samadhi. Fifty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained non-retrogression cognition. This non-retrogression Samadhi is Dharma-accorded cognition, and also the Dharma-accorded world. Sixty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the dharani. This dharani is also the Great-Praying Mind, and is also Unobstructed Knowledge. And seventy-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the Lion’s Roar Samadhi. This Lion’s Roar is also called the Adamantine Samadhi, and alsothe Samadhi of Five-Knowledge Impression. Eighty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the All-Equal Samadhi. This All-Equal Samadhi is also called Great Loving-Kindness and GreatCompassion. Beings as numerous as the grains of sand of countless Ganges aspired to unsur-passed Bodhichitta [Awakened Mind]; beings as numerous as the grains of sand of countless Ganges aspired to the pratyeka mind, and beings as numerous as the grains of sand of in-numerable Ganges aspired to the sravaka mind. Two-million-billion females of the worlds of the humans and the gods discarded their female forms and became males. Subhadra attained arhatship.

The End
of the
Noble Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra"


Earlier in this chapter "On Kaundinya" Buddha praises Ananda at length and then refers to his own passing briefly: "O good man! When I am gone, what Ananda did not hear will be propounded by "Bodhisattva Wide-Wide"; what Ananda did hear will be promulgated by Ananda himself."


quotes from: The Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, Translated into English by Kosho Yamamoto, 1973, from Dharmakshema’s Chinese version. Edited, revised and copyright by Dr. Tony Page, 2007.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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well wisher
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by well wisher »

Prehaps the below article might also be useful reference regarding Buddha's Parinirvana.

Website: http://chinabuddhismencyclopedia.com/en ... :_On_Cunda

Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra Chapter 2: On Cunda
It is very rare that the Buddha appears in the world. It is also hard to meet with the Buddha, gain faith, and hear [his] sermons. It is harder still to be able to make the final offerings to him at the time of his entering Nirvana and well attain all this. Well done, well done, O Cunda! You are now perfect in danaparamita.
"You should, as you see proper, quickly offer meals. To offer thus is the best of all offerings. The bhiksus, bhiksunis, upasakas and upasikas may have undergone a long journey; they may be extremely tired. Give the purest things as required. Thus speedily giving is the fundamental thing, to be perfect in danaparamita. O Cunda! Give the final offerings to the Buddha and Sangha, more or less, full or not full, quick as the occasion requires. The Tathagata will rightly be entering Parinirvana" Cunda said: "O Manjushri! Why is it that you so greedily care about the meal and make me give more or less, full or not full, in answer to the requirement of the occasion? O Manjushri! The Tathagata in the past practised penance for six years and supported himself. Why could he not now when it is just a matter of a moment? O Manjushri! Do you say that the Tathagata, the Right-Enlightened One, truly means to accept this meal? But I definitely know that the Tathagata is the Dharma-Body and that he is no carnal body that partakes of food."
narhwal90
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by narhwal90 »

The BDK translation concludes with;

"Good men, cultivate your minds, be conscientious, and avoid indolence.
Now my back hurts, my whole body aches, and I want to lie down like
a small infant or someone who is chronically ill. You, Mañjuśrī, shall
expound the great teaching to the four groups of followers. I now entrust
this dharma to you. In addition, when Kāśyapa and Ānanda arrive, I also
entrust the true-dharma to them."
At that point, after the Tathāgata had spoken those words he displayed
pain in his body, wanting to discipline the living beings present. He then lay
down on his right side, like someone who is ill.

I think its kind of elegant, no theatrics to grasp onto.
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Virgo »

narhwal90 wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:11 pm The BDK translation concludes with;

"Good men, cultivate your minds, be conscientious, and avoid indolence.
Now my back hurts, my whole body aches, and I want to lie down like
a small infant or someone who is chronically ill. You, Mañjuśrī, shall
expound the great teaching to the four groups of followers. I now entrust
this dharma to you. In addition, when Kāśyapa and Ānanda arrive, I also
entrust the true-dharma to them."
At that point, after the Tathāgata had spoken those words he displayed
pain in his body, wanting to discipline the living beings present. He then lay
down on his right side, like someone who is ill.

I think its kind of elegant, no theatrics to grasp onto.
:thumbsup:

Virgo
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Caoimhghín »

narhwal90 wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:11 pm The BDK translation concludes with;

"Good men, cultivate your minds, be conscientious, and avoid indolence.
Now my back hurts, my whole body aches, and I want to lie down like
a small infant or someone who is chronically ill. You, Mañjuśrī, shall
expound the great teaching to the four groups of followers. I now entrust
this dharma to you. In addition, when Kāśyapa and Ānanda arrive, I also
entrust the true-dharma to them."
At that point, after the Tathāgata had spoken those words he displayed
pain in his body, wanting to discipline the living beings present. He then lay
down on his right side, like someone who is ill.

I think its kind of elegant, no theatrics to grasp onto.
This biggest mystery is how I wouldn't have seen this. I need to look at the PDF I was looking at and see if this matches.
savi saghara aṇica di, savi saghara dukha di, savi dhama aṇatva di:
yada paśadi cakhkṣuma tada nivinadi dukha eṣo mago viśodhia.

"All formations are inconstant," he said.
"All formations are stressful," he said.
"All phenomena are selfless," he said.
When one sees this, one becomes adverse to stress, and this is the path of purity.

(Gāndhārī Dharmapada fragments)
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Caoimhghín »

Here's the end of the document I was working with:
[...] "Noble son, all dharmas are not veridical. Wherever they are extinguished is termed the True / the Real, the true ideation, the Dharmadhatu [all-encompassing realm of Ultimate Reality], the Culmination of Knowing [nistha-jnana], Ultimate Truth [paramartha-satya], Ultimate Emptiness [paramartha-sunyata = complete Openness and Non-Obstruction by any limitations or limits]. "Noble son, if one engages in the lakshana [or "ideation"?], the Dharmadhatu, the Culmination of Knowing [nistha-jnana], Ultimate Truth, Ultimate Emptiness with inferior insight [prajna], one will attain the awakening of the sravakas; if with middle-grade insight, [one will attain the awakening of the] pratyekabuddha, and if with Top-Grade Insight, one will attain Unsurpassed Awakening."

When this Dharma hadWhen this Dharma had been delivered, 10,000 Bodhisattvas attained the real mental image of one life, one-million-five-hundred Bodhisattvas attained the two-life Dharmadhatu, twomillion-five-hundred Bodhisattvas attained to Ultimate Knowing, and 3,500 Bodhisattvas awoke to Ultimate Truth. This Ultimate Truth is also Paramartha-Sunyata, and also the Suramgama Samadhi. Forty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the All-Emptiness Samadhi. This allEmptiness Samadhi is also called the Vast and Great Samadhi, and the Knowledge-Impression Samadhi. Fifty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained non-retrogression cognition. This nonretrogression Samadhi is Dharma-accorded cognition, and also the Dharma-accorded world. Sixty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the dharani. This dharani is also the Great-Praying Mind, and is also Unobstructed Knowledge. And seventy-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the Lion’s Roar Samadhi. This Lion’s Roar is also called the Adamantine Samadhi, and also the Samadhi of Five-Knowledge Impression. Eighty-five thousand Bodhisattvas attained the All-Equal Samadhi. This All-Equal Samadhi is also called Great Loving-Kindness and Great Compassion. Beings as numerous as the grains of sand of countless Ganges aspired to unsurpassed Bodhichitta [Awakened Mind]; beings as numerous as the grains of sand of countless Ganges aspired to the pratyeka mind, and beings as numerous as the grains of sand of innumerable Ganges aspired to the sravaka mind. Two-million-billion females of the worlds of the humans and the gods discarded their female forms and became males. Subhadra attained arhatship.

The End of the Noble Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra
I just looked up in the thread and it's the same document/translation Aemilius has it looks like.
savi saghara aṇica di, savi saghara dukha di, savi dhama aṇatva di:
yada paśadi cakhkṣuma tada nivinadi dukha eṣo mago viśodhia.

"All formations are inconstant," he said.
"All formations are stressful," he said.
"All phenomena are selfless," he said.
When one sees this, one becomes adverse to stress, and this is the path of purity.

(Gāndhārī Dharmapada fragments)
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Aemilius
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Aemilius »

On which version of the text is the BDK's translation based?

"The text of the Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra in the original Sanskrit has survived only in a number of fragments, which were discovered in Central Asia, Afghanistan and Japan. It exists in Chinese and Tibetan versions of varying lengths. There are four extant versions of the sūtra, each translated from various Sanskrit editions:

1. The "six fascicle text", the translation into Chinese by Faxian and Buddhabhadra, translated during the Jin dynasty (265–420) between 416 and 418, containing six fascicles, which is the shortest and earliest version;
2. The "northern text", with 40 fascicles, translated by Dharmakṣema between 421 and 430 in the Northern Liang kingdom, containing forty fascicles. This version was also translated into Classical Tibetan from the Chinese.
3. The "southern text", with 36 fascicles, in approximately 453 by Huiguan and Huiyan during the Liu Song dynasty, integrated and amended the translations of Faxian and Dharmakṣema into a single edition of thirty-six fascicles;
4. The Tibetan version (c790CE) by Jinamitra, Jñānagarbha, and Devacandra;

According to Hodge, some other versions have also existed:
a secondary Chinese version of Dharmakṣema's translation, completed in 453 CE. This was produced "by polishing the style and adding new section headings";
Chinese catalogues of translations mention two other Chinese translations, slightly earlier than Faxian, which are no longer extant."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Caoimhghín »

I'm going to check the ones in the Taishō Canon in a few.
savi saghara aṇica di, savi saghara dukha di, savi dhama aṇatva di:
yada paśadi cakhkṣuma tada nivinadi dukha eṣo mago viśodhia.

"All formations are inconstant," he said.
"All formations are stressful," he said.
"All phenomena are selfless," he said.
When one sees this, one becomes adverse to stress, and this is the path of purity.

(Gāndhārī Dharmapada fragments)
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Caoimhghín
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Caoimhghín »

After a few, I found that there are five nirvāṇa sūtras in the Taishō Canon. The one that me and Aemilius were looking at is T374 from Ven Dharmakṣema. This is the version that perhaps omits the Buddha's parinirvāṇa (or the corresponding section was lost perhaps?). The BDK is T375 translated by 沙門慧嚴等, or "the bhikṣu Huìyán etc.," indicating others worked on it as well.
savi saghara aṇica di, savi saghara dukha di, savi dhama aṇatva di:
yada paśadi cakhkṣuma tada nivinadi dukha eṣo mago viśodhia.

"All formations are inconstant," he said.
"All formations are stressful," he said.
"All phenomena are selfless," he said.
When one sees this, one becomes adverse to stress, and this is the path of purity.

(Gāndhārī Dharmapada fragments)
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Aemilius
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Aemilius »

Thanks for the information. At the pace the events proceed in Dharmakshema (version) it would need about 100... 200 pages more to the already lengthy sutra. In away the actual "death" or parinirvana is unimportant or even misleading for the purposes of the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana sutra, because Tathagata is seen to be eternal etc... Thus it seems logical that the "actual Parinirvana" has been omitted.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
narhwal90
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by narhwal90 »

As shown in BDK, the ending is definitely abrupt considering the length & detail of text preceeding it. 1st time through I was expecting a subsequent chapter with more detailed events and commentary. OTOH as stated, I can only imagine how distraught Kasyapa and Ananda would have been having arrived later- it added a welcome human circumstance to the text. OTOH in just a few paragraphs before Kasyapa seems to be present in conversation with Sakyamuni... I suppose I'm missing some detail.
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Re: Buddha's Parinirvana

Post by Caoimhghín »

In the Pāli śrāvaka recension, Venerable Śāriputra shows up at the final sermon despite having been previously dead, so the editing and expansion of this text goes way back.
savi saghara aṇica di, savi saghara dukha di, savi dhama aṇatva di:
yada paśadi cakhkṣuma tada nivinadi dukha eṣo mago viśodhia.

"All formations are inconstant," he said.
"All formations are stressful," he said.
"All phenomena are selfless," he said.
When one sees this, one becomes adverse to stress, and this is the path of purity.

(Gāndhārī Dharmapada fragments)
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