The Truth of the First Noble Truth

[lorem]

Didn't Avalokiteśvara say that there is no suffering in the Heart Sutra?

LOL

Shije or Pacification of Suffering came from Heart Sutra. Chod from Vajra Cutter (we can argue that point but is not the point).

I like Jikan's idea of not giving up.

EDIT I interjected maybe Sherab you should bump your question.

[Malcolm]

So why did you suggest I pray to Tara.

Very simply put, taking refuge in sublime beings such as Buddhas and tenth stage bodhisattvas is meritorious because they are pure, uncontaminated and free of all afflictions. This alone eliminates traces of obscuration.

Mahayana Buddhas apparently have accomplished the 10 Bhumis the 6 Perfections etc...im sure you know the stages of accomplishments in 10 Bhumis as you are a translator.

Do you suppose that perfecting dānapāramitā, the perfection generosity means that you have removed all the poverty there is in the three realms? Of course it does not mean that. Ṥantideva addresses this qualm in the Bodhicaryāvatāra where he points out that the Bodhisattva perfected the perfection of generosity through his wish to give all virtuous things to everyone, not because he was actually able to do so. Mahāyāna is based on one's intention.

Since you are someone who has entered Mahāyāna already, it is really better if you go back to the beginning and study the teachings under a qualified teacher in a proper way. This cynicism, doubt and lack of faith is harmful to you.

Not to mention what the other Bhumis of Vajrayana and Dzogchen...their accomplishments are said to be for more advanced.

The bhumis in Vajrayāna are merely subtle refinements in omniscience, that is all, there are no special powers that Vajradhara as that a buddha on the eleventh bhumi lacks.

[Malcolm]

Read the accomplishments. Anyway you are a moderator so I'm sure you are aware of the claims of what Buddhas have accomplished.

Maybe you should read them more carefully.

[DGA]

That is already understood (please stop it)...the point is after one has made the movement and meet the requirements. Why all the grandiose claims and chest beating just do what they claim they can do.

Would you mind giving a concrete example of a specific claim made by Buddha Shakyamuni or anyone else that resembles the "chest beating" you perceive as hypocritical? Maybe a quotation or something?

Read the accomplishments. Anyway you are a moderator so I'm sure you are aware of the claims of what Buddhas have accomplished.

I have some familiarity with Buddha Dharma, but that's beside the point. I'm not asking for my benefit, I'm asking in order to understand just where you're coming from. Last I checked, wikipedia isn't a canonical Buddhist text, so it's totally unclear why you chose to cite that as evidence in support of your claim on the "chest-beating" of Buddhas and bodhisattvas.

I think Malcolm's posts give you excellent advice and guidance on this. He's rebutted your posts directly, reasonably, and patiently. I encourage you to apply that advice and cease trolling this thread.

[brendan]

Read the accomplishments. Anyway you are a moderator so I'm sure you are aware of the claims of what Buddhas have accomplished.

Maybe you should read them more carefully.

Malcolm, Buddhas are said to be able to manifest as _anything_...or as many atoms in the universe.

There is still suffering...and thanks for all your hard work and time in translating.

[Malcolm]

Read the accomplishments. Anyway you are a moderator so I'm sure you are aware of the claims of what Buddhas have accomplished.

Maybe you should read them more carefully.

Malcolm, Buddhas are said to be able to manifest as _anything_...or as many atoms in the universe.

There is still suffering...and thanks for all your hard work and time in translating.

Yes, and nevertheless because of our own afflictive and karmic obscurations not only are we unable to see them, but we still continue to suffer.

For example, a person with jaundice cannot see white things as white, only as yellow and so on. Buddhas offer us the medicine to cure this condition, but if we do not take it, then like the sick person who does not follow their doctor's instructions, then we have only ourselves to blame for not getting well.

In the end, brendan, we are responsible for our own liberation, there are no Buddhas to lift us out of samsara like mewling kittens being moved to a safe place by mother cat. This does not mean however that Buddhas are not all around us, benefitting us all the time in ways we cannot or will not perceive.

All harm that comes to us is a result of our afflicted vision. All benefit that comes to us is the blessings of the Buddhas — if we train with this attitude, then our attitude will improve remarkably.

[brendan]

Malcolm, Buddhas are said to also be beyond doctors.

You didn't have to type that (but thanks)...I have listing to and read about that response many times.

[Malcolm]

Malcolm, Buddhas are beyond doctors.

Buddhas are called "great physicians" for the very reason I state. And like doctors who can only treat patients who do what they say, Buddha can only help sentient beings who follow the path that they teach. As it is said:

• The munis do not wash sins away,
  nor remove suffering with their hands.

[Johnny Dangerous]

Malcolm, Buddhas are said to also be beyond doctors.

You didn't have to type that (but thanks)...I have listing to and read about that response many times.

And yet, so far you haven't given a coherent counter to the statement. Buddhas can only help us inasmuch as we are willing to see them, and follow their instructions.

Recollection of the Tathagata even goes back to the Pali Canon...

Chemo therapy ain't gonna do anything for someone who is denial about having cancer, because they'd never start it.

[brendan]

Malcolm, Buddhas are beyond doctors.

Buddhas are called "great physicians" for the very reason I state. And like doctors who can only treat patients who do what they say, Buddha can only help sentient beings who follow the path that they teach. As it is said:

• The munis do not wash sins away,
  nor remove suffering with their hands.

Malcolm, not doing what they say and not following the path is also a illness.

[DGA]

Malcolm, Buddhas are said to also be beyond doctors.

You didn't have to type that (but thanks)...I have listing to and read about that response many times.

Where, in what text, in what context, have you read or heard that Buddhas are also beyond doctors? And what does that mean?

And how does that counterweigh the evidence to the contrary that you yourself admit you've read many times?

A few posts back, I encouraged you to cease trolling the board. This is a second reminder.

[DGA]

Malcolm, not doing what they say and not following the path is also a illness.

Give some evidence. What, specifically, to Buddhas claim to do but then not do?

[conebeckham]

Malcolm, Buddhas are beyond doctors.

Buddhas are called "great physicians" for the very reason I state. And like doctors who can only treat patients who do what they say, Buddha can only help sentient beings who follow the path that they teach. As it is said:

• The munis do not wash sins away,
  nor remove suffering with their hands.

Malcolm, not doing what they say and not following the path is also a illness.

Yes, but it's OUR illness.

Brendan-suffering only exists because there are sentient beings. If all sentient beings were Buddhas, there would be no suffering. But there is no way for any Buddha to end my suffering, or your suffering--they can point the way, provide the medicine, set the example, but we hold the responsibility in our hands.

As long as there are sentient beings, that is as long as the First Noble Truth is True.

[Grigoris]

A doctor gives you medicine, if you refuse to take it...

[Malcolm]

Malcolm, Buddhas are beyond doctors.

Buddhas are called "great physicians" for the very reason I state. And like doctors who can only treat patients who do what they say, Buddha can only help sentient beings who follow the path that they teach. As it is said:

• The munis do not wash sins away,
  nor remove suffering with their hands.

Malcolm, not doing what they say and not following the path is also a illness.

Yes, and there is nothing Buddhas can do about that.

[brendan]

[Malcolm, Buddhas are beyond doctors.

Buddhas are called "great physicians" for the very reason I state. And like doctors who can only treat patients who do what they say, Buddha can only help sentient beings who follow the path that they teach. As it is said:

• The munis do not wash sins away,
  nor remove suffering with their hands.

Malcolm, not doing what they say and not following the path is also a illness.

Yes, and there is nothing Buddhas can do about that.[/quote]

Malcolm, this is your quote "All benefit that comes to us is the blessings of the Buddhas".

[Paul]

A doctor gives you medicine, if you refuse to take it...

Yes - samsara is because of a being's deluded mind. The only thing that can bring that delusion to an end is a being deliberately training their mind. It's not like a doctor removing a tumour for a patient. Buddhas manifest infinite training methods, but if they are not followed then a being's samsaric delusion will continue.

[brendan]

You are still failing to convey what you mean, please post something a bit clearer.

OK Medicine Buddha.

Sorry for typing this in a Mahayana thread.

[Malcolm]

Malcolm, this is your quote "All benefit that comes to us is the blessings of the Buddhas".

Yes, because the buddhas only wish the best for sentient beings, it is therefore any benefit that befalls them is a blessing of the buddhas.

[brendan]

Malcolm, this is your quote "All benefit that comes to us is the blessings of the Buddhas".

Yes, because the buddhas only wish the best for sentient beings, it is therefore any benefit that befalls them is a blessing of the buddhas.

This is also a quote, "Yes, and there is nothing Buddhas can do about that"...So how can there even be a cognition of a wish?