Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

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Nosta
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Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Nosta » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:19 am

Is it aceptable for a Lama or a Monk to get drunk?

Or smoke?

I am reading a book about Tulshuku Lingpa (a terton), and it seems that he used to drink a lot. How can someone highly acomplished to drink so much?

Even Acariya Mun (a famous and high acomplished dhutanga monk) used to somke near the end of his life.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:27 pm

Nosta wrote:Is it aceptable for a Lama or a Monk to get drunk?

Or smoke?

I am reading a book about Tulshuku Lingpa (a terton), and it seems that he used to drink a lot. How can someone highly acomplished to drink so much?

Even Acariya Mun (a famous and high acomplished dhutanga monk) used to somke near the end of his life.
It's against the Pratimoksha vows, the root of Buddha's teaching, so it isn't okay for an ordained person or a lay person who has taken Pratimoksha Vows. I don't know if that's the case for the two people you have mentioned.

philji
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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by philji » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:28 pm

Tetris often do some crazy things... The rules often get broken.... Maybe to help us deal with our judgemental minds.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by kirtu » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:38 pm

Nosta wrote:Is it aceptable for a Lama or a Monk to get drunk?
Not an ordinary one.
I am reading a book about Tulshuku Lingpa (a terton), and it seems that he used to drink a lot. How can someone highly acomplished to drink so much?
A controversial terton who either led his followers to an avalanche or a hidden Pure Land.

Tertons sometimes break rules often to liberate us from our dualistic thinking. This particular lama was a wild man at times.


http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Tulshuk_Lingpa
Kunzang, the only son of Tulshuk Lingpa, describes his father: "My father was just like the eighth emanation of Padmasambhava, Guru Nyima Özer. Guru Nyima Özer was like a sadhu, a wandering holy man, never staying in one place. He was not a stable type of person. He was a crazy yogin like my father. And like my father, he drank a lot."
Even Acariya Mun (a famous and high acomplished dhutanga monk) used to somke near the end of his life.
I don't know why Achariya Mun smoked. It may have been medicinal.

Kirt
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"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
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Nosta
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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Nosta » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:33 pm

Thanks for answering.
I am reading about about Tulshuk Lingpa. It seems an extraordinary person who had indeed some siddhis. I am still reading the book so I dont know yet if he found the door do Beyul (hidden valley like a Pure Land perhaps) but I suspect that the answer is no. Anyway, cming back on topic, I have the idea that even Padmasambhava himself was a little bit crazy :D, and I am saying this with all the respect. And that kind of "bright crazyness" is strange, because I am used to see a Buddha or Boddhisattva as someone very moderate, peaceful and who thinks before acts. Someone very calm like, for example, Dalai Lama.

About Acarya Mun, smoking is the only strange thing about him; besides that he was much like a Buddha. Well, perhaps sometimes he would be a little harsh with his disciples, but I think that was like a strategie.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by philji » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:42 pm

In the foundational vehicle of Buddhism..observing the vows are of paramount importance. In the Mahayana benefitting sentient beings is of paramount importance. In Vajrayana..having pure perception is of paramount importance.
In Vajrayana teachers and deities come in all shapes and sizes..... Peaceful, wrathful, serene, passionate.whatever benefits beings.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:55 pm

Nosta wrote:Is it aceptable for a Lama or a Monk to get drunk?
It is never acceptable to get drunk such that one loses mindfulnesses. That being said, most of the Lamas I have known over the years have been lay people, and most of them drink moderately.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:09 pm

philji wrote:Tetris often do some crazy things... The rules often get broken.... Maybe to help us deal with our judgemental minds.
I love that game... but I've never seen the rules get broken.... :shrug:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by philji » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:10 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
philji wrote:Tetris often do some crazy things... The rules often get broken.... Maybe to help us deal with our judgemental minds.
I love that game... but I've never seen the rules get broken.... :shrug:
Tetris is a terma did you not know :spy:

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by tingdzin » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:48 am

Achariya Mun was a Theravada monk. Since tobacco is an American plant, it was not around for the Buddha to have an opinion about, so it's not mentioned in the Vinaya. Many Burmese monks smoke whacking great cheroots.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by kirtu » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:53 am

tingdzin wrote:... whacking great cheroots.
English translation please?

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Losal Samten » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:17 am

kirtu wrote:
tingdzin wrote:... whacking great cheroots.
English translation please?

Kirt
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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by BrianG » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:12 pm

tingdzin wrote:Achariya Mun was a Theravada monk. Since tobacco is an American plant, it was not around for the Buddha to have an opinion about, so it's not mentioned in the Vinaya. Many Burmese monks smoke whacking great cheroots.
Many Thai monks smoke. They don't consider it a violation of the precepts, since smoking doesn't make you intoxicated.
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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by dzoki » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:10 pm

BrianG wrote:
tingdzin wrote:Achariya Mun was a Theravada monk. Since tobacco is an American plant, it was not around for the Buddha to have an opinion about, so it's not mentioned in the Vinaya. Many Burmese monks smoke whacking great cheroots.
Many Thai monks smoke. They don't consider it a violation of the precepts, since smoking doesn't make you intoxicated.
Actually it does, even though on a more subtle level.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Ayu » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:55 pm

The worst thing about tobacco smoking is it's addictive power. :(
And I imagine it as very uninspiring, if I have to give cigarettes or money for cigarettes as dana. Not very respect-generating.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Malcolm » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:03 pm

Ayu wrote:The worst thing about tobacco smoking is it's addictive power. :(
No, the worst thing about tobacco is that it takes up the radioactive isotope Polonium 210, which is why habitual smoking of tobacco causes lung cancer.

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:24 pm

IDK, if I saw a teacher just smoking or drinking as an occasional thing, I'd think nothing of it. I can count on one hand the number of tobacco smokers or drinkers that do that though, it took me 13 tries over many years to quit smoking....however a teacher with some realization, personally I could see them not being as subject to that kind of addiction.

I'd just observe the teacher for a while and see.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Ayu » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:39 pm

It took me 35 trials to leave smoking. I would have big difficulties to respect a smoking teacher. In my perception smoking is equal to mental weakness. :shrug:

(Edit: Except this teacher is of the kind of Chögyam Trungpa. I never met him, but if I read about him.. I'm convinced of his power.)
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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:40 pm

Ayu wrote:It took me 35 trials to leave smoking. I would have big difficulties to respect a smoking teacher. In my perception smoking is equal to mental weakness. :shrug:

(Edit: Except this teacher is of the kind of Chögyam Trungpa. I never met him, but if I read about him.. I'm convinced of his power.)
Normally I'd agree, only IME there are some people (not just formal teachers either) who I consider spiritually "advanced" in some way that were able to kind of pick up and drop habits, and didn't seem to have much attachment. I grant you, particularly with nicotine, that's pretty rare.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: Lamas and Monks that Drink and Smoke - Is it Normal?

Post by dharmagoat » Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:28 pm

When it comes to teachers that smoke, I personally would doubt the spiritual maturity of someone that requires to suck on something for pleasure.

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