How do buddhas contact people?

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 7964
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Astus »

Luke wrote:I don't know if I consider Shakyamuni Buddha as "absolutely real" (I am not sure about what the definition of that would be) but I do consider him "as real as Charlemagne was" because there is historical evidence for the existence of both.
And those are concepts as well.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
pael
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by pael »

Can it be known when buddhas make contact? How we can contact them?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
Admin_PC
Former staff member
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Admin_PC »

pael wrote:Can it be known when buddhas make contact? How we can contact them?
If you're really interested, I'd say the Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of the Pratyutpanna Buddha Sammukhāvasthita Samādhi is your best bet.
User avatar
Vasana
Posts: 2099
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:22 am

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Vasana »

pael wrote:Can it be known when buddhas make contact? How we can contact them?
Refuge.
Prayers and suplications.
Guru Yoga.
Mantra recitation.

Realized beings and Buddhas have clairvoyance, telapthy etc so they know when you're contacting them.
ཨོཾ ་ མ ་ ཎི ་ པ ་ དྨེ ་ ཧཱུྃ ། འ ་ ཨ ་ ཧ ་ ཤ ་ ས ་ མ །
Om Mani Peme Hum ། 'A Ah Ha Sha Sa Ma
'When alone, watch your mind,When with others, watch your speech' - Old Kadampa saying
BuddhaFollower
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by BuddhaFollower »

Unless you are a 8th bhumi minimum, you are only contacting Nirmanakayas.

Even if you wind up in a Pure Land.
Admin_PC
Former staff member
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Admin_PC »

BuddhaFollower wrote:Unless you are a 8th bhumi minimum, you are only contacting Nirmanakayas.

Even if you wind up in a Pure Land.
I already did a thread debunking this: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=24050
I really don't know where this idea comes from, but given that this is the Mahayana subforum, then Mahayana sutras take precedence.
User avatar
Vasana
Posts: 2099
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:22 am

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Vasana »

BuddhaFollower wrote:Unless you are a 8th bhumi minimum, you are only contacting Nirmanakayas.

Even if you wind up in a Pure Land.
The kayas are inseparable nonetheless.
ཨོཾ ་ མ ་ ཎི ་ པ ་ དྨེ ་ ཧཱུྃ ། འ ་ ཨ ་ ཧ ་ ཤ ་ ས ་ མ །
Om Mani Peme Hum ། 'A Ah Ha Sha Sa Ma
'When alone, watch your mind,When with others, watch your speech' - Old Kadampa saying
BuddhaFollower
Posts: 602
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by BuddhaFollower »

Admin_PC wrote:
BuddhaFollower wrote:Unless you are a 8th bhumi minimum, you are only contacting Nirmanakayas.

Even if you wind up in a Pure Land.
I already did a thread debunking this: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=24050
I really don't know where this idea comes from, but given that this is the Mahayana subforum, then Mahayana sutras take precedence.

The bhumis are Mahayana.

The bhumis don't exist in Hinayana.
Admin_PC
Former staff member
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Admin_PC »

BuddhaFollower wrote:
Admin_PC wrote:
BuddhaFollower wrote:Unless you are a 8th bhumi minimum, you are only contacting Nirmanakayas.

Even if you wind up in a Pure Land.
I already did a thread debunking this: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=24050
I really don't know where this idea comes from, but given that this is the Mahayana subforum, then Mahayana sutras take precedence.
The bhumis are Mahayana.

The bhumis don't exist in Hinayana.
I'm talking about the idea that Buddhas in Pure Lands (specifically Amitabha/Amitayus) being perceived are Nirmanakayas with no Sambhogakaya aspect. Or if you're saying that the bhumi is what restricts one from seeing Sambhogakayas, then that needs to be cited. I'm not seeing it in the 8th bhumi chapter of the 10 Grounds Sutra (of the Avatamsaka). I mean there's mention of seeing all Buddhas, but there's also mention in the first bhumi of seeing "all Tathagatas" (though a later passage says they see "hundreds of thousands of koṭis of nayutas of Buddhas". Neither passage mentions "Sambhogakaya", "bliss body", or "reward body". So again, I'm curious the reference to this limitation. I have not seen it in the Mahayana sutras. In fact the Sūtra of Achieving a Clear Understanding of the Mahāyāna seems to directly contradict you by saying that the reward body is perceived by those bodhisattvas in the first ground.
User avatar
Losal Samten
Posts: 1522
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Losal Samten »

Admin_PC wrote: I'm talking about the idea that Buddhas in Pure Lands (specifically Amitabha/Amitayus) being perceived are Nirmanakayas with no Sambhogakaya aspect. Or if you're saying that the bhumi is what restricts one from seeing Sambhogakayas, then that needs to be cited. I'm not seeing it in the 8th bhumi chapter of the 10 Grounds Sutra (of the Avatamsaka). I mean there's mention of seeing all Buddhas, but there's also mention in the first bhumi of seeing "all Tathagatas" (though a later passage says they see "hundreds of thousands of koṭis of nayutas of Buddhas". Neither passage mentions "Sambhogakaya", "bliss body", or "reward body". So again, I'm curious the reference to this limitation. I have not seen it in the Mahayana sutras. In fact the Sūtra of Achieving a Clear Understanding of the Mahāyāna seems to directly contradict you by saying that the reward body is perceived by those bodhisattvas in the first ground.
Sambhogakayas only being able to teach 8th+ bhumi bodhisattvas seems to be a Tibetan Vajrayana backreading into the Sutrayana, as no mention of the Five Certainties of the Sambhogakaya can be found in the Tibetan sutric or shastric canon by either Tsongkhapa or Paltrul (outside of one shastra which only mentions four of the five certainties).
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
Admin_PC
Former staff member
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Admin_PC »

Losal Samten wrote:Sambhogakayas only being able to teach 8th+ bhumi bodhisattvas seems to be a Tibetan Vajrayana backreading into the Sutrayana, as no mention of the Five Certainties of the Sambhogakaya can be found in the Tibetan sutric or shastric canon by either Tsongkhapa or Paltrul (outside of one shastra which only mentions four of the five certainties).
Thank you for that! As long as we can understand that it is a point of doctrinal difference, then we can respect each other's views and continue respectful discourse. I am in no way trying to devalue Tibetan Vajrayana teachings.
User avatar
Losal Samten
Posts: 1522
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by Losal Samten »

Admin_PC wrote:
Losal Samten wrote:Sambhogakayas only being able to teach 8th+ bhumi bodhisattvas seems to be a Tibetan Vajrayana backreading into the Sutrayana, as no mention of the Five Certainties of the Sambhogakaya can be found in the Tibetan sutric or shastric canon by either Tsongkhapa or Paltrul (outside of one shastra which only mentions four of the five certainties).
Thank you for that! As long as we can understand that it is a point of doctrinal difference, then we can respect each other's views and continue respectful discourse. I am in no way trying to devalue Tibetan Vajrayana teachings.
Likewise; I was not trying to discredit E.A. Pureland in our last conversation (Pure Land-Ch'an was my school of choice before I came into contact with Tibetan Buddhism, and it still informs my outlook), but we seemed to end off on the wrong foot for some reason and it actually troubled me quite a bit.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
User avatar
BrianG
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: How do buddhas contact people?

Post by BrianG »

The Buddha has contacted people for prayers recently.

I don't know how the Buddha contacts people, because I am not a Buddha.
Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”