What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply
Ervin
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:15 am
Location: Melbourne

What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Ervin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Now, most religions teach some sort of creation story. Creation of the world, day, night,etc. What is the creation story of the world we live in according to Buddhism? Or the universe?

Thanks

Sādhaka
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Sādhaka » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:13 pm

The Aggañña Sutta, and Abhidharma: Abhidharmakośa-bhāṣya, Abhidharmakośa-kārika, Abhidharma-samuccaya, etc.
“...we should try to acquire clairvoyance. Without it, we are like a baby bird whose wings are undeveloped and has not yet grown feathers and remains stuck in its nest, unable to fly. Without clairvoyance, we cannot work for other sentient beings.” — Khunu Lama
“Just as a bird can not fly without both wings,
The welfare of others cannot be accomplished without the higher faculties of perception,
So diligently strive for your own wellbeing, whilst mentally considering the welfare of others.” — Longchenpa

User avatar
PuerAzaelis
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:24 pm

Once upon a time, nothing happened. But people ignored it. To be continued.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 7041
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Astus » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:25 pm

1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

Kuluru
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:41 am
Location: Germany

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Kuluru » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:53 am

Hello,
Ervin wrote:What is the creation story of the world we live in according to Buddhism?
From a different angle: "The world we live in" is a world of the senses, so we don't have to look very far for the beginning and the end.

User avatar
Wayfarer
Global Moderator
Posts: 4091
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:14 am

Ervin wrote:Now, most religions teach some sort of creation story. Creation of the world, day, night,etc. What is the creation story of the world we live in according to Buddhism? Or the universe?
It's also important to understand that when the Buddha was quizzed about whether the world was eternal or of finite duration, that this is one of the 'undetermined questions'. They are questions which the Buddha wouldn't answer and suggested that they be put aside. The reason being, that one can speculate endlessly about such questions but that is not beneficial activity from the viewpoint of the path. Considering the inordinate amount of hot air the 'creation debate' generates in contemporary culture, I think in this case the Buddha's advice ought to be heeded.

That aside, Buddhism adapted the Hindu cosmological schema, but it's important to note that it's cyclical, so again, the question of whether there is an absolute beginning is not decided and also not really crucial. Beings are always subject to the law of karma until they are liberated no matter what world they are born into.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 7041
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Astus » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:36 pm

Wayfarer wrote:It's also important to understand that when the Buddha was quizzed about whether the world was eternal or of finite duration, that this is one of the 'undetermined questions'. They are questions which the Buddha wouldn't answer and suggested that they be put aside.
There is a whole samyutta (Anamataggasamyutta - Connected Discourses on Without Discoverable Beginning) on the topic of samsara having no beginning, so it is not at all such a dubious or unanswered issue in Buddhism.

"Bhikkhus, this samsara is without discoverable beginning. A first point is not discerned of beings roaming and wandering on hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving. Suppose, bhikkhus, a man would cut up whatever grass, sticks, branches, and foliage there are in this Jambudipa and collect them together into a single heap. Having done so, he would put them down, saying [for each one]: ‘This is my mother, this my mother’s mother.’ The sequence of that man’s mothers and grandmothers would not come to an end, yet the grass, wood, branches, and foliage in this Jambudipa would be used up and exhausted. For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, this samsara is without discoverable beginning. A first point is not discerned of beings roaming and wandering on hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving. For such a long time, bhikkhus, you have experienced suffering, anguish, and disaster, and swelled the cemetery."
(SN 15.1, tr Bhikkhu Bodhi)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

Pjotr
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:25 pm

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Pjotr » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:32 pm

Astus wrote:
Wayfarer wrote:It's also important to understand that when the Buddha was quizzed about whether the world was eternal or of finite duration, that this is one of the 'undetermined questions'. They are questions which the Buddha wouldn't answer and suggested that they be put aside.
There is a whole samyutta (Anamataggasamyutta - Connected Discourses on Without Discoverable Beginning) on the topic of samsara having no beginning, so it is not at all such a dubious or unanswered issue in Buddhism.
Is the meaning of "without discoverable beginning" the same as "no beginning"? Does that sutta phrase "a first point is not discerned" imply "there is no first point"?

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 7041
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Astus » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:04 pm

Pjotr wrote:Is the meaning of "without discoverable beginning" the same as "no beginning"? Does that sutta phrase "a first point is not discerned" imply "there is no first point"?
In simple terms, yes.

III.19d. In this way the circle of existence is without beginning.
Arising by reason of the defilements and actions; defilements and actions by reason of arising; arising by reason of the defilements and actions: the circle of existences is thus without beginning. In order for it to begin, it would be necessary for the first item to have no cause: and if one dharma arises without a cause, then all dharmas would arise without causes. Now the determination of time and place show that a seed produces a shoot, that a fire produces cooking: hence there is no arising that does not have causes. On the other hand, the theory of a single and permanent cause has been refuted above (ii.65): hence the cycle of existence has no beginning.

(Abhidharmakosabhasyam, vol 2, p 400-401)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

Pjotr
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:25 pm

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Pjotr » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:14 pm

Astus wrote:
Pjotr wrote:Is the meaning of "without discoverable beginning" the same as "no beginning"? Does that sutta phrase "a first point is not discerned" imply "there is no first point"?
In simple terms, yes.
Thanks. I thought there might be some empirical/epistemological/metaphysical, or whatever terms they use in philosophy, differences between those statements.

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:05 am

i understand that in buddhism worlds -planets- are created and destroyed, but not the universe


pd: here i'm saying universe equals space
what are you doing

User avatar
aflatun
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:21 am
Location: Bay Area, CA

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by aflatun » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:43 am

Ervin wrote:Now, most religions teach some sort of creation story. Creation of the world, day, night,etc. What is the creation story of the world we live in according to Buddhism? Or the universe?

Thanks
I'm not trolling, so please bear with me :tongue:

When we consider what the "world" is per Buddhism, the answer is quite straight forward:

"And what is the origination of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

To say the same thing another way, the world is constructed vis-a-vis ignorance, i.e. in lieu of a cosmological creation story with its implicit views of existence and non existence, we get the Dhamma via the middle:

"From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Or to take it from Nagarjuna's Yuktiṣaṣṭikākārikā:

10. When true knowledge sees the appearance conditioned by ignorance, no arising or ceasing is perceived.

17. When one understands that existence is like a mirage and an illusion, one is not polluted by views of the extremes of a beginning or an end.

37. Since the buddhas have said that the world has ignorance for its condition, does it not follow that this world is a mental construction?

38. That which ceases when ignorance ceases, how can it not be clear that is an imagination constructed out of mis-knowledge?


(translated by Eviatar Shulman) https://www.academia.edu/7033642/Creati ... sciousness

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 2135
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Minobu » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:01 pm

For me , and this is opinion from what I've surmised from various teachings.

There is no beginning to samsara or end for it is by nature, a time thing ,bending in on itself creating a circle. It's so infinite that it,time, bends on itself, creating a circle.
so yeah there is no end and no beginning and we are stuck with it.

But in the beginning of the beginning there was mind , and then the concept of individuality developed, then desire.
It was this ....that sort of self-created Samsara. Or the Desire realms. Samsara is created , a sort of self creation from Karma. Which is produced from primordial desire if you will.
again only opinion...

The fog...the fog..we so live in, leaves so much to think about..... The enlightened ones see the circle , hence it has no beginning or end. So the teaching is correct and Stephen Hawking would concur.

On another note....recently i had a talk with a neuro science student. He was explaining how my wife, due to her recent exposure to West nile Virus, no longer sends out the millions of pieces of.....i can't remember what he said, or called it specifically, but it is like stuff we send out to communicate and receive feedback to our brain to process through our senses....Feedback from the stuff we dwell in. she is damaged so her reality is now different.

Actual energy things spewing out our eyes and attaching to things we wish to grasp or touch...it allows us to physically move and touch more accurately...a sort of glob of energy coming out the eye and holding unto an object so we can move nicely to it and pick it up.


stuff being what we call reality.....

He then went onto say that no two particles can actually touch each other....when we place our hand on an object none of our hand is in direct contact with what ever we think we are touching. No two molecules can actually touch each other or like some sort of explosion would take place...they would have collided.

So he said....all this stuff we call reality is conscious based and communicates with us to give us an illusion of living in a real world...the wall we touch is consciousness ,everything is consciousness that we communicate with and a sort of illusionary reality is produced in our minds.

one thinks we are touching the wall , but actually the wall is consciousness communicating through our nerves and this other sensory field if you will to create an illusion of reality.

when our hand "touches" something it isn't actually touching it , but the stuff communicates through our nerves to our brain and creates the reality through communication..


i was stunned this Muslim kid was telling me this stuff...wish I could have had a more elaborate conversation with him...for it is only a sketchy memory now...


but it did give me a sort of foggy new paradigm in which to see "stuff"...

very weird how i learn things...and i'm hoping someone can debunk this and send me back to the drawing bored and start over....or...help me to further refine this fog

maybe some of it is right and some of it wrong....
no worries...
Wow kids!!!! it's kenner it's fun .....

cheers
d

smcj
Posts: 5836
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by smcj » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:19 pm

Kongtrul's 1st volume in his "Treasury of Knowledge" encyclopedia is about cosmology. That volume is titled "Myriad Worlds". He has everything from a Mt. Meru cosmology to a Dzogchen cosmology. So at least as far as late 19th century Eastern Tibet's version of Buddhism goes, you've got an assortment of possible answers at your disposal.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

Ervin
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:15 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Ervin » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:18 am

I know it's been a while since I posted this thread, but I had to revisit it. Thanks to all of you for answering my question.

In my search fir which religion is true, I have to ask questions like this one.

To be honest with you, I don't know if one of the God believing religions is true, or if Buddhism, or Jainism,etc.

I might post some other threads, in order to try and work out which religion is true. So, I am not preaching this or that, but just trying my self to work out the truth, if that's possible.

Thanks

Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: What is the creation of the universe story in Buddhism?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:10 pm

Ervin wrote: What is the creation story of the world we live in according to Buddhism?
Two teachings are relevant
The first is that gods from the heaven of light-sound came to earth, became attached to a certain food which as they ate made them more and more dense until they developed organs and began to reproduce.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/L/36

The second is that after a long period the world dissolves and being are reborn into a heavenly realm (abhassara devaloka) then a new world appears but it is empty. Then when some being's merit is exhausted he is reborn in the world, after being alone for sometime he wishes for companions and then another being whose merit is exhausted is born there, then he mistakenly thinks that he is bhrama the creator and the beings who come after world also mistake and believe this .

Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests