buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

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nichiren-123
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buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by nichiren-123 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:19 pm

The lotus sutra says allot about how buddhahood is open to all.
it also (I think) says you can achieve buddhahood by realizing your own inherent buddhanature.

But my question is what is it that we are realizing?

I'm guessing this can only be answered theoretically since you'd probably have to be enlightened already to know the full truth but I'd like to hear peoples opinions.

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CedarTree
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by CedarTree » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:31 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:The lotus sutra says allot about how buddhahood is open to all.
it also (I think) says you can achieve buddhahood by realizing your own inherent buddhanature.

But my question is what is it that we are realizing?

I'm guessing this can only be answered theoretically since you'd probably have to be enlightened already to know the full truth but I'd like to hear peoples opinions.
Emptiness, Nirvana, The fullness of the Dhamma, There is a lot in the Pali Canon and Mahayana Sutras about this. Buddhahood is some pretty serious stuff ;)

Practice, Practice, Practice

nichiren-123
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by nichiren-123 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:59 pm

What I mean is what is this buddhahood which we all possess? What is our fathers estate? What is the jewel sewn into our clothes? What is the treasure inside our storehouse?

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CedarTree
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by CedarTree » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:04 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:What I mean is what is this buddhahood which we all possess? What is our fathers estate? What is the jewel sewn into our clothes? What is the treasure inside our storehouse?
You can talk around it but in truth it's probably a non-conceptual and something language can't touch just like Nirvana.

I would suggest practice maybe Zazen ;)

Practice, Practice, Practice

nichiren-123
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by nichiren-123 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:10 pm

CedarTree wrote:
nichiren-123 wrote:What I mean is what is this buddhahood which we all possess? What is our fathers estate? What is the jewel sewn into our clothes? What is the treasure inside our storehouse?
You can talk around it but in truth it's probably a non-conceptual and something language can't touch just like Nirvana.

I would suggest practice maybe Zazen ;)
I practice nichiren Buddhism (hence my username)
So the method I use is daimoku, but it is hard to tell where you are without a roadmap, so to speak.
I agree that ultimately it may not be something that can be grasped, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it in at least a theoretical way, surely?

narhwal90
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by narhwal90 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:29 pm

I'd suggest a change of pace; keep doing the daimoku and usual practice, but do some other sutra reading; Heart Sutra, Vajra Samadhi, many others. I like to pick them at random and read them if they make sense or not, then pick up another & repeat- I am so ignorant of surrounding buddhist doctrine that learning anything anywhere is an improvement. I found the Nichiren practice alone was like being trained to use a swiss-army knife using just one tool; 1. "grab handle here" 2. Extract can-opener blade thus 3. Open can. 4. close blade, done. But all the other tools are not exhibited and discussed, nor is why the can-opener tool folds out and looks as it does, nor why the handle is the handle etc.

I view the other sutras as talking about the jewel in the clothes and the father's estate from other positions using other words. In essence, with 84000 dharma gates around, its easy to walk thru several.

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CedarTree
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by CedarTree » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:03 pm

narhwal90 wrote:I'd suggest a change of pace; keep doing the daimoku and usual practice, but do some other sutra reading; Heart Sutra, Vajra Samadhi, many others. I like to pick them at random and read them if they make sense or not, then pick up another & repeat- I am so ignorant of surrounding buddhist doctrine that learning anything anywhere is an improvement. I found the Nichiren practice alone was like being trained to use a swiss-army knife using just one tool; 1. "grab handle here" 2. Extract can-opener blade thus 3. Open can. 4. close blade, done. But all the other tools are not exhibited and discussed, nor is why the can-opener tool folds out and looks as it does, nor why the handle is the handle etc.

I view the other sutras as talking about the jewel in the clothes and the father's estate from other positions using other words. In essence, with 84000 dharma gates around, its easy to walk thru several.
Wisdom :)

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Minobu
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by Minobu » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:23 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:What I mean is what is this buddhahood which we all possess? What is our fathers estate? What is the jewel sewn into our clothes? What is the treasure inside our storehouse?
You already are a Buddha...we all are.....
You messed up ...got lost in samsara...need to find your way back home...
It's Karma that clouds it...somehow we got lost in this samsaric nightmare...

you could not be a sentient being without being Buddha .

work on your practice, We get bummed then you question what you are.. "It's a good Thing " said in the voice of that Master of making America beautiful again with one gold sprayed pine cone at a time...

EDIT:
I heard she gets up early every morning and makes her own paper

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rory
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by rory » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:33 am

this is quite good from Wikipedia:
All Buddhist traditions hold that a Buddha is fully awakened and has completely purified his mind of the three poisons of desire, aversion and ignorance. A Buddha is no longer bound by Samsara, and has ended the suffering which unawakened people experience in life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood

The idea we are already enlightened is part of the Flower Garland/Avatamsaka/Kegon school philosophy as it posits the existance of a pure Mind. It is not found in the Lotus Sutra , the idea that everyone has Buddhanature is and it's extremely important. Later in Japanese Tendai the idea of "Original Enlightenment" hongaku was developed. Tendai Shu holds to Original Enlightenment, but not all Nichiren Schools do, Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke Shu don't hold with it. Likewise Pure Land sects like Jodo Shu and Jodo Shinshu don't hold with Original Enlightenment either.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

Bakmoon
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by Bakmoon » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:28 am

nichiren-123 wrote:What I mean is what is this buddhahood which we all possess? What is our fathers estate? What is the jewel sewn into our clothes? What is the treasure inside our storehouse?
This is explained in more detail in the various Tathagata-garbha Sutras. I think the one that gives the most explicit teaching as opposed to just metaphors is the Srimaladevi Sutra. It should be easy to find on Google and it isn't too long of a text.

nichiren-123
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by nichiren-123 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Bakmoon wrote:
nichiren-123 wrote:What I mean is what is this buddhahood which we all possess? What is our fathers estate? What is the jewel sewn into our clothes? What is the treasure inside our storehouse?
This is explained in more detail in the various Tathagata-garbha Sutras. I think the one that gives the most explicit teaching as opposed to just metaphors is the Srimaladevi Sutra. It should be easy to find on Google and it isn't too long of a text.
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... 0Sutra.htm

read it; didn't make sense to me

Bakmoon
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by Bakmoon » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:11 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:
Bakmoon wrote:
nichiren-123 wrote:What I mean is what is this buddhahood which we all possess? What is our fathers estate? What is the jewel sewn into our clothes? What is the treasure inside our storehouse?
This is explained in more detail in the various Tathagata-garbha Sutras. I think the one that gives the most explicit teaching as opposed to just metaphors is the Srimaladevi Sutra. It should be easy to find on Google and it isn't too long of a text.
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... 0Sutra.htm

read it; didn't make sense to me
That translation is hard to understand. Try this one
The most important part in my opinion is the following:
“World-Honored One, the wisdom-knowledge of the Tathāgata store is a Tathāgata’s wisdom-knowledge of the emptiness of dharmas. World-Honored One, no Arhat, Pratyekabuddha, or holy Bodhisattva has ever seen his Tathāgata store or realized that he possesses it.
“World-Honored One, there are two kinds of wisdom-knowledge of the emptiness of one’s Tathāgata store. The first kind is the wisdom-knowledge of the empty Tathāgata store, which is separate, detached, or different from one’s store of all afflictions. The second kind is the wisdom-knowledge of the not-empty Tathāgata store, which is not separate, detached, or different from the inconceivable Buddha Dharma [with teachings] more numerous than the sands of the Ganges.
“World-Honored One, only great Arhats can believe in a Tathāgata’s teachings on these two kinds of wisdom-knowledge of the emptiness of one’s Tathāgata store. For all Arhats and Pratyekabuddhas, their wisdom-knowledge of emptiness revolves around the four inverted views.[31] Therefore, they have never known or realized [that they possess the Tathāgata store]. Only a Buddha has verified the cessation of all His suffering, destroyed His store of all afflictions, and completed His training on all paths to end all His suffering.
In other words, Buddha nature is the wisdom that knows emptiness.

nichiren-123
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Re: buddhahood according to the lotus sutra?

Post by nichiren-123 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:29 am

Bakmoon wrote:
nichiren-123 wrote:
Bakmoon wrote: This is explained in more detail in the various Tathagata-garbha Sutras. I think the one that gives the most explicit teaching as opposed to just metaphors is the Srimaladevi Sutra. It should be easy to find on Google and it isn't too long of a text.
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... 0Sutra.htm

read it; didn't make sense to me
That translation is hard to understand. Try this one
The most important part in my opinion is the following:
“World-Honored One, the wisdom-knowledge of the Tathāgata store is a Tathāgata’s wisdom-knowledge of the emptiness of dharmas. World-Honored One, no Arhat, Pratyekabuddha, or holy Bodhisattva has ever seen his Tathāgata store or realized that he possesses it.
“World-Honored One, there are two kinds of wisdom-knowledge of the emptiness of one’s Tathāgata store. The first kind is the wisdom-knowledge of the empty Tathāgata store, which is separate, detached, or different from one’s store of all afflictions. The second kind is the wisdom-knowledge of the not-empty Tathāgata store, which is not separate, detached, or different from the inconceivable Buddha Dharma [with teachings] more numerous than the sands of the Ganges.
“World-Honored One, only great Arhats can believe in a Tathāgata’s teachings on these two kinds of wisdom-knowledge of the emptiness of one’s Tathāgata store. For all Arhats and Pratyekabuddhas, their wisdom-knowledge of emptiness revolves around the four inverted views.[31] Therefore, they have never known or realized [that they possess the Tathāgata store]. Only a Buddha has verified the cessation of all His suffering, destroyed His store of all afflictions, and completed His training on all paths to end all His suffering.
In other words, Buddha nature is the wisdom that knows emptiness.

So Buddha nature is the ability to understand emptiness and impermanence?

Or rather that we can realise our true nature which is empty?

Or (if you follow tiantai) understanding the threefold truth: emptiness, provisional existence and the middle way as it applies to you?

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