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Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:43 pm
by Malcolm
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:34 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:29 pm
Twins ( and earthworms ) are entirely separate individuals. Even identical twins have major differences in temperament and sometimes in ability.
As to earthworms I wonder whether you are referring to the myth that if cut in half they grow a new half..?
If so it IS a myth. The back end always dies quickly because it has no mouthparts.
The front half sometimes survives for a while if the wound heals successfully..but usually also dies quickly.
I didn't know it was am myth, thanks.
But in the case of twins, they do split after conception, so....
Yes, because two consciousnesses simultaneously are conceived in the same red and white elements, which then split the embryo due to vāyu. It is not a case where one consciousness splits into two.

Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:48 pm
by Fortyeightvows
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:43 pm
Yes, because two consciousnesses simultaneously are conceived in the same red and white elements, which then split the embryo due to vāyu. It is not a case where one consciousness splits into two.
Sounds good, thanks.
But I can't figure out what " split the embryo due to vāyu" means...?

Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 pm
by ydnan321
DNS wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:07 pm
The idea of fragmented souls comes from Hinduism and I believe also Jainism; not sure about Taoism.
ydnan321 wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:28 pm
In some other articles I read, he mentioned that these fragmented souls would need to join together again to take rebirth at a higher forms (e.g. multiple roosters' souls need to be integrated together to reborn as a horse, then multiple horse's souls then integrate to be a human.)
How would the mechanics of karma make that even work? The different animals that need to combine don't die at the same time. And then each animal accumulates his/her own karma and karmic results. The individual mind streams of Buddhism make more sense.

The Buddhist suttas/sutras always refer to individuals, with the Buddha mentioning things like: this monk went to this realm; this nun went to that realm; this butcher was reborn to this woeful existence, etc etc.
Hi, I’ve thought of that too though I’m not sure if animals generate their own karma? Would you be able to share references to that ? And then I thought about if it’s possible for these animals to share one central “vault” of karma that somehow metaphysically linked? Actually, this idea has caused me to think of all sort of crazy things and I am certainly deluded. I wanted to stop but the doubt is still within me, not sure how/if I could get rid of it. Also, any references to the single mindstream of Buddhism?
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:07 am
ydnan321 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:05 am
Sorry, I’m still stuck on this, would be grateful if anyone could provide explanation stating why multiplicity of animal rebirths is not possible using scripture or well-known master’s accounts/references? Links would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

YN
It is not possible. If you would do your own research, you will come to this conclusion and will have no further doubt about.
I’ve tried researching on my own though never really got down to a complete resolution and seemed like the more I tried the more exhausted and frustrated I got. I will continue with my research when possible. On the other hand, any contribution in the forum on this, hopefully with references, to help me get over this is deeply appreciated.

Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:16 pm
by Malcolm
ydnan321 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 pm

I’ve tried researching on my own though never really got down to a complete resolution and seemed like the more I tried the more exhausted and frustrated I got. I will continue with my research when possible. On the other hand, any contribution in the forum on this, hopefully with references, to help me get over this is deeply appreciated.
Examine Yogacara explanations for why mind streams are unique and separate, even if there are no external objects.

Re: Soul fragmentation and defragmentation as Buddism teaching?

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:19 pm
by Javierfv1212
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:59 pm
Matt J wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:53 pm
I wonder how the multiple tulku phenomenon fits into the discussion.
There is no canonical basis for the idea of reincarnations of body, speech, mind, etc.

That said, there is canonical basis for bodhisattvas having exponentially more emanations from the first bhumi one ward which increase by powers of ten, thus a tenth stage bodhisattva can have 100,000,000,000,000,000,000, i.e. one hundred septillion emanations.

And every Buddha has an emanation in every world in a given billion-world universe (1000 to the third power).
Malcom, so what is the difference between a mindstream's emanation and a mindstream's rebirth?

Is the rebirth the "main" stream if you will, and the emanations like the secondary branchings of a river? Like once an emanation has emanated, it is its own mindstream with its own karma, even if it has a connection with the previous "main" stream?