Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
Vasana
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:22 am

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Vasana » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:23 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:47 am
csmorg96 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:56 am
How do followers of Mahayana sects reconcile the bodhisattva vow to continue taking rebirth with Shakyamuni's complete enlightenment?
i give no shit on what sects reconcile
but mahayana has no vow, only "voluntary" activity
How #edgey of you...there are evidently vows in Mahayana. The vows are also voluntary.
and there is no enlightenment, because there is no "self"

#FactsNotFaith bro (laughing)

You seem to be mistaking the kayas at the time of the path for the fruition kayas of Buddhahood. Milk has the escence of butter contained within it but you can't spread milk on your toast... As with sesame seeds and their oil.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:54 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:23 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:47 am
csmorg96 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:56 am
How do followers of Mahayana sects reconcile the bodhisattva vow to continue taking rebirth with Shakyamuni's complete enlightenment?
i give no shit on what sects reconcile
but mahayana has no vow, only "voluntary" activity
How #edgey of you...there are evidently vows in Mahayana. The vows are also voluntary.
and there is no enlightenment, because there is no "self"

#FactsNotFaith bro (laughing)

You seem to be mistaking the kayas at the time of the path for the fruition kayas of Buddhahood. Milk has the escence of butter contained within it but you can't spread milk on your toast... As with sesame seeds and their oil.
vows are the way of monks
acts are the way of boddhisatva
what are you doing

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6396
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Queequeg » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:06 pm

csmorg96 wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:56 am
How do followers of Mahayana sects reconcile the bodhisattva vow to continue taking rebirth with Shakyamuni's complete enlightenment?
Because he has already accomplished his vow:
Shariputra, you should know
that at the start I took a vow,
hoping to make all persons
equal to me, without any distinction between us,
and what I long ago hoped for
has now been fulfilled.
I have converted all living beings
and caused them all to enter the buddha way.
Lotus Sutra Ch. 2
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28574
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Malcolm » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:08 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:29 am
Shakyamuni Buddha never took that vow AFAIK.
Of course he received that vow. :shrug:
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 1878
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:29 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:08 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:29 am
Shakyamuni Buddha never took that vow AFAIK.
Of course he received that vow. :shrug:
I'm not sure if the OP has been edited since I responded to it. But what I thought he was asking about was the vow to postpone his enlightenment until all other sentient beings became Buddhas first. Surely Shakyamuni Buddha did not take that vow, right?

User avatar
Vasana
Posts: 1745
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:22 am

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Vasana » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:24 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:54 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:23 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:47 am


i give no shit on what sects reconcile
but mahayana has no vow, only "voluntary" activity
How #edgey of you...there are evidently vows in Mahayana. The vows are also voluntary.
and there is no enlightenment, because there is no "self"

#FactsNotFaith bro (laughing)

You seem to be mistaking the kayas at the time of the path for the fruition kayas of Buddhahood. Milk has the escence of butter contained within it but you can't spread milk on your toast... As with sesame seeds and their oil.
vows are the way of monks
acts are the way of boddhisatva
So the two are mutually exclusive in your eyes? The Dalai Lama and the Karmapa among countless others seem like both to me. If you have aspirational bodhichitta and are aiming for Buddhahood, this is a kind of vow in and of itself whether or not it's formally stated.

Acts follow intention, aspiration, diligence and the capacity to complete an act as intended. Vows include the intention, aspiration and the commitment to developing the skillfull means and wisdom to complete those acts. Where does an act originate? The mind. What is a vow? A way of directing and re-directing the mind in the right direction until it is effortless. One is not inferior compared to the other as you seem to be hinting. Even bodhisattvas on the Bhumis are still pursuing the fruition of their vows.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

User avatar
passel
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by passel » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:56 am

What did I see, recently- something like: the being of the Bodhisattva is Buddha, the activity of Buddha is Bodhisattva
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

jhanapeacock
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:57 am

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by jhanapeacock » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:40 pm

GoingHome wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:24 am
Just imagine, each Buddha influence "3 heaven great heaven worlds" (1 trillion galaxies),
Where you got that from? as far as i know a sambhogakaya buddha can influence much more than that-

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:43 am

my point is:
there is no need for a vow
if you truly want to live on boddhicitta, you just do it
no need for words.

i hope not being rude on this :(
what are you doing

Norwegian
Posts: 1458
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Norwegian » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:57 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:43 am
my point is:
there is no need for a vow
if you truly want to live on boddhicitta, you just do it
no need for words.

i hope not being rude on this :(
If you want to enter the path of Mahayana, you must receive the Bodhisattva vows. Otherwise there's no go.

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 6175
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by kirtu » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:11 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:43 am
my point is:
there is no need for a vow
if you truly want to live on boddhicitta, you just do it
no need for words.

i hope not being rude on this :(
That is the general Zen approach but in fact Zen practitioners take formal Boddhisattva vows. But both before and after formally taking the Bodhisattva Vow one recites at least one version practically daily. And every bow incorporates rasing the mind of Bodhicitta.

I don't know how other Mahayana schools deal with the Bodhisattva Vows other than the Chinese schools formally take them.

However in the Vajrayana one takes the Bodhisattva Vows formally as well as generating Bodhicitta ideally before or during every practice. HH Penor Rinpoche adviced students to retake Bodhisattva Vows often, especially on merit multiplying days.

There is at least a psychological advantage in taking the Bodhisattva Vows if one is sincere.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
Nicholas Weeks
Posts: 3145
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:21 am
Location: California

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Nicholas Weeks » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:35 am

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:29 am
Shakyamuni Buddha never took that vow AFAIK.
In Lalitavistara Sutra he was reminded several times about his past lives bodhisattva vows, so I assume he lived as he vowed.
Here are musical tones giving an early reminder to him:
“In the past you gave away your exquisite wealth and riches,
And even your hands, feet, and dear body.
Great Sage, now is your time;
Open up the limitless river of Dharma for sentient beings.

“Your stainless and virtuous discipline has never been broken;
Until now you have always been adorned by the best qualities;
Great Sage, no one has discipline like you.
Now you must free beings from their many afflictions.

“For hundreds of lives you trained in forbearance;
You had patience with all kinds of evil words from others;
Through patience you are forbearing, self-controlled, and at ease.
Lord of Men, now you must decide to depart from home.

“Your diligence is firm, steadfast, and unshakable;
Bliss-Gone One, you are great from beginning to end.
Virtuous One, you will tame Māra, the evil one, and his army,
And dry up the entire three lower realms.

“This is why you have practiced disciplined conduct and austerities—
To burn the afflictions of these evil and degenerate times.
Now let a rain of nectar fall
To soothe the thirst of those who for so long have had no protector.

“Now remember your supreme vow from the past:
‘I will leave behind this beautiful town,
Quickly attain the state without death or sorrow,
And satisfy those who suffer from thirst with the nectar of immortality.’
Glorious one, creator of all goodness, Mañjuśrī, his glorious eminence!
Manjushri-namasamgiti

User avatar
GoingHome
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:27 am
Location: Brampton, ON Canada

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by GoingHome » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:31 am

jhanapeacock wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:40 pm
GoingHome wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:24 am
Just imagine, each Buddha influence "3 heaven great heaven worlds" (1 trillion galaxies),
Where you got that from? as far as i know a sambhogakaya buddha can influence much more than that-
You are correct. 1 trillion galaxies is just the minimum field of influence. An example is Amida Buddha field of influence is limitless.

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 931
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:08 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:57 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:43 am
my point is:
there is no need for a vow
if you truly want to live on boddhicitta, you just do it
no need for words.

i hope not being rude on this :(
If you want to enter the path of Mahayana, you must receive the Bodhisattva vows. Otherwise there's no go.
¿Does karma operates only when you name it karma? ☺
what are you doing

Sentient Light
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:40 pm
Location: Pacifica, California

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Sentient Light » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:42 pm

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:29 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:08 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:29 am
Shakyamuni Buddha never took that vow AFAIK.
Of course he received that vow. :shrug:
I'm not sure if the OP has been edited since I responded to it. But what I thought he was asking about was the vow to postpone his enlightenment until all other sentient beings became Buddhas first. Surely Shakyamuni Buddha did not take that vow, right?
I know this is old, just popping in to add some clarity:

The Mahayana Tripitaka states that, during the time of Dipankara Buddha, prior to Sumedha Bodhisattva first receiving his prediction of buddhahood, the Bodhisattva was right on the verge of arahantship. Knowing this, and so inspired by the sight of the Buddha, Sumedha Bodhisattva vowed to postpone arahantship in order to cultivate merits over many lifetimes in order to awaken as a buddha later in order to save sentient beings.

AFAIK, none of the Mahayana texts that recount this story (and there are several) mention any explicit vow to postpone awakening until all sentient beings are saved. In the context of the story, it seems pretty clear (though this isn't explicitly stated either) that Sakyamuni's vow was about becoming a Buddha as quickly as he reasonably could in order to inspire others to practice the way he was inspired by Dipankara.
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:

User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 1878
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Shakyamuni and bodhisattva vow

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:35 pm

Sentient Light wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:42 pm
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:29 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:08 pm


Of course he received that vow. :shrug:
I'm not sure if the OP has been edited since I responded to it. But what I thought he was asking about was the vow to postpone his enlightenment until all other sentient beings became Buddhas first. Surely Shakyamuni Buddha did not take that vow, right?
I know this is old, just popping in to add some clarity:

The Mahayana Tripitaka states that, during the time of Dipankara Buddha, prior to Sumedha Bodhisattva first receiving his prediction of buddhahood, the Bodhisattva was right on the verge of arahantship. Knowing this, and so inspired by the sight of the Buddha, Sumedha Bodhisattva vowed to postpone arahantship in order to cultivate merits over many lifetimes in order to awaken as a buddha later in order to save sentient beings.

AFAIK, none of the Mahayana texts that recount this story (and there are several) mention any explicit vow to postpone awakening until all sentient beings are saved. In the context of the story, it seems pretty clear (though this isn't explicitly stated either) that Sakyamuni's vow was about becoming a Buddha as quickly as he reasonably could in order to inspire others to practice the way he was inspired by Dipankara.
Thanks! :anjali:

Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: conebeckham and 32 guests