To what extent do hell beings inhabit our world of physical objects?

[Motova]

To what extent do hell beings inhabit our world of physical objects?

[明安 Myoan]

This is the human realm. They don't, as far as I know.

[Losal Samten]

Vaibhashika - They exist under Mt. Meru
Sautrantika on up - Solitary mind-only realm

Edit - Although some ephemeral hell realm beings can co-exist with us

[fuki]

To what extent do hell beings inhabit our world of physical objects?

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... uishin.pdf

[Malcolm]

To what extent do hell beings inhabit our world of physical objects?

They don't.

[Motova]

I thought they could be reborn into chairs, tables, brooms, etc etc....

[Malcolm]

I thought they could be reborn into chairs, tables, brooms, etc etc....

Those are temporary hells, but the hells realms do not, according to Mahāyāna thinking, have physical existence.

[Motova]

I thought they could be reborn into chairs, tables, brooms, etc etc....

Those are temporary hells, but the hells realms do not, according to Mahāyāna thinking, have physical existence.

I don't understand.

[Malcolm]

I thought they could be reborn into chairs, tables, brooms, etc etc....

Those are temporary hells, but the hells realms do not, according to Mahāyāna thinking, have physical existence.

I don't understand.

Hell realms only exist in the mind.

[Motova]

Those are temporary hells, but the hells realms do not, according to Mahāyāna thinking, have physical existence.

I don't understand.

Hell realms only exist in the mind.

I still don't understand.

[Tiago Simões]

I thought they could be reborn into chairs, tables, brooms, etc etc....

Those are temporary hells, but the hells realms do not, according to Mahāyāna thinking, have physical existence.

I am also a bit confused by this one Loppön, what do you mean with "temporary hells"? Aren't all hells temporary?

[Malcolm]

I thought they could be reborn into chairs, tables, brooms, etc etc....

Those are temporary hells, but the hells realms do not, according to Mahāyāna thinking, have physical existence.

I am also a bit confused by this one Loppön, what do you mean with "temporary hells"? Aren't all hells temporary?

The temporary (nyi tshe ba) hells are called "temporary" or "day hells" because they are solitary (pratyeka), and generally last for a very short period.

[Mantrik]

To what extent do hell beings inhabit our world of physical objects?

I think your question is leading to some very narrow answers. Beings in another realm can't 'inhabit' ours, but we can interact with them. Some have no physical form, but we still interact with them.

Of course, realms, like other phenomena, are all in the mind, and for my money if we regard everything as illusory then it is all of equal reality too. If I am totally convinced a spirit has entered my world and interacts with me, it is real, and that personal reality is all we have.

[Sentient Light]

I think your question is leading to some very narrow answers. Beings in another realm can't 'inhabit' ours, but we can interact with them. Some have no physical form, but we still interact with them.

Of course, realms, like other phenomena, are all in the mind, and for my money if we regard everything as illusory then it is all of equal reality too. If I am totally convinced a spirit has entered my world and interacts with me, it is real, and that personal reality is all we have.

Here is a misunderstanding. There is a difference between all realms being made-of-mind and the Mahayana position of the hell realms (even within Yogacara thought). Most realms do share a physical environment (which is not to contest that that physical environment is manifest of mind):

Hungry ghosts, animals, human beings, and devas,
According to their different perceptions
Perceive the same thing differently.
One should admit that their referent (yi; artha) is not a substantial reality (chen-shih, dravya).

In regard to phenomena of the past and future,
As in dream images or mirror reflections,
Although the object-support (alambana) is not real,
Still the marks of objects of cognition (visaya-lakshanas) are posited

But note the lack of hell-beings in that list. This is because the hell realms do not have a physical environment; they are a created space, manifest of the hell-beings' karmic habits.

[Mantrik]

Most realms do share a physical environment .....

Your quote does not provide any evidence of this. Examine what 'formless' means.

[PadmaVonSamba]

something to consider,
when we raise the question of another kind of being occurring in our (human) realm,
that sort of starts with the premise that this realm that we experience has some kind of intrinsic reality to it
(as opposed to being emptiness, sunyata, devoid of any intrinsic substantial essence).
I prefer the term experience rather than inhabit to avoid constructing that very conceptual precondition.

Because of the strong karmic need to experience a solid "self", beings may perceive chairs, trees, or other objects to be their bodies, and suffer when those objects are damaged or destroyed. Of course, to a lot of people this sounds far-fetched and ridiculous, until you realize that this is precisely what we do with the elements, the carbon, salts, calcium, water, iron, etc., all the way down to the sub-atomic level, that each of desperately clings to as "me".

Humans have all the potentials of experiencing what other beings experience, which is why certain habitual clinging patterns can lead to that kind of rebirth, because, while there is nothing that can be identified as an intrinsically existent "self", there are what you might call, wheels that are set in motion. It's like an echo in a canyon: If you yell "Hellooo" into a canyon, the echo will reverberate the sound "Hellooo". Establishing certain causes produces results in kind.

If a person constantly practices greediness, always feeling as though they don't have enough, then even when they do, they remain unsatisfied. When causes manifest as the experience of a rebirth, then, even if that person is born into a wealthy household, mentally they will experience poverty.

A hell being might experience the human realm, if the causes for that result were planted in the past, like seeds that eventually sprout. But the realms themselves are empty of any self-reality. It's the mind of the being that establishes the experience of the realm.
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