(Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

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ItsRaining
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(Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by ItsRaining » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:46 am

This seems like kind of a weird question but the Buddha is free of attachments and sees the emptiness of dharmas right? So why did he go into the forest (to hide?) after the death of the Shakya clan and saying he felt empty after the deaths of Sariputra and Maugdalayana?

Simon E.
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Simon E. » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:15 pm

Contrary to popular belief seeing the emptiness of Dharmas does not mean that one becomes an emotionless robot. Its just that one doesn't forge an identity around those emotions. They arise, they pass.
Taking advantage of a temporary situation. Back for a short time only folks.

ItsRaining
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by ItsRaining » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:16 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:15 pm
Contrary to popular belief seeing the emptiness of Dharmas does not mean that one becomes an emotionless robot. Its just that one doesn't forge an identity around those emotions. They arise, they pass.
For emotions to arise and pass like that wouldn’t there need to be attachment or desire first? The Buddha is free of attachment to dharmas right?

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TharpaChodron
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by TharpaChodron » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:14 am

ItsRaining wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:16 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:15 pm
Contrary to popular belief seeing the emptiness of Dharmas does not mean that one becomes an emotionless robot. Its just that one doesn't forge an identity around those emotions. They arise, they pass.
For emotions to arise and pass like that wouldn’t there need to be attachment or desire first? The Buddha is free of attachment to dharmas right?
Like Simon said, being free of attachment doesn't mean being unexposed to thoughts, feelings, dharmas. It means not clinging to them as solid things. I don't think the Buddha's teaching is about becoming a feelingless robot. True freedom is seeing the impermanent, empty nature of things. One can't put the cart before the horse and be immune from everything without experiential knowledge of life and death, suffering etc. The Dalai Lama sheds a tear when people tell their life stories, too, sometimes.

ItsRaining
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by ItsRaining » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:24 am

TharpaChodron wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:14 am
ItsRaining wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:16 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:15 pm
Contrary to popular belief seeing the emptiness of Dharmas does not mean that one becomes an emotionless robot. Its just that one doesn't forge an identity around those emotions. They arise, they pass.
For emotions to arise and pass like that wouldn’t there need to be attachment or desire first? The Buddha is free of attachment to dharmas right?
Like Simon said, being free of attachment doesn't mean being unexposed to thoughts, feelings, dharmas. It means not clinging to them as solid things. I don't think the Buddha's teaching is about becoming a feelingless robot. True freedom is seeing the impermanent, empty nature of things. One can't put the cart before the horse and be immune from everything without experiential knowledge of life and death, suffering etc. The Dalai Lama sheds a tear when people tell their life stories, too, sometimes.
That's true, but I imagine it also depends on the circumstances. Shakyamuni is an Nirmankaya right? I doubt the Dharmakaya or Reward body would be able to give rise to those things. Or maybe I'm wrong again :tongue:

Soma999
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Soma999 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:31 am

Many masters cried. They are not like stones. They cut through all the bullshit. But they are far from being insensitive.

Kuluru
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Kuluru » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 am

Hello,
ItsRaining wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:46 am
[...] So why did he go into the forest (to hide?) after the death of the Shakya clan and saying he felt empty after the deaths of Sariputra and Maugdalayana?
The Buddha didn't say that he "felt empty". He said (Ukkacela Sutta, emphasis mine):

"Bhikkhus, this assembly appears to me empty now that Sāriputta and Moggallana have attained final Nibbāna."

And as far as "his feelings" were concerned:

"It is wonderful, bhikkhus, on the part of the Tathagata, it is amazing on the part of the Tathagata, that when such a pair of disciples has attained final Nibbāna, there is no sorrow or lamentation in the Tathagata."

Sentient Light
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Sentient Light » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:54 pm

The assumption here is that grief implies suffering or sorrow.
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:

ItsRaining
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by ItsRaining » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:43 pm

Kuluru wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 am
Hello,
ItsRaining wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:46 am
[...] So why did he go into the forest (to hide?) after the death of the Shakya clan and saying he felt empty after the deaths of Sariputra and Maugdalayana?
The Buddha didn't say that he "felt empty". He said (Ukkacela Sutta, emphasis mine):

"Bhikkhus, this assembly appears to me empty now that Sāriputta and Moggallana have attained final Nibbāna."

And as far as "his feelings" were concerned:

"It is wonderful, bhikkhus, on the part of the Tathagata, it is amazing on the part of the Tathagata, that when such a pair of disciples has attained final Nibbāna, there is no sorrow or lamentation in the Tathagata."
Ah, thank you. I guess I should check the Sutras rather rely on retelling.

ItsRaining
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by ItsRaining » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:44 pm

Sentient Light wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:54 pm
The assumption here is that grief implies suffering or sorrow.
Without attachment and seeing it’s emptiness means it’s no longer suffering?

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Aemilius
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Aemilius » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:21 am

Kuluru wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 am
Hello,
ItsRaining wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:46 am
[...] So why did he go into the forest (to hide?) after the death of the Shakya clan and saying he felt empty after the deaths of Sariputra and Maugdalayana?
The Buddha didn't say that he "felt empty". He said (Ukkacela Sutta, emphasis mine):

"Bhikkhus, this assembly appears to me empty now that Sāriputta and Moggallana have attained final Nibbāna."

And as far as "his feelings" were concerned:

"It is wonderful, bhikkhus, on the part of the Tathagata, it is amazing on the part of the Tathagata, that when such a pair of disciples has attained final Nibbāna, there is no sorrow or lamentation in the Tathagata."
Can you find the source for the other story also, please? -I haven't read it before.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."
(Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1.)

Sentient Light
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Sentient Light » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:49 pm

ItsRaining wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:44 pm
Sentient Light wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:54 pm
The assumption here is that grief implies suffering or sorrow.
Without attachment and seeing it’s emptiness means it’s no longer suffering?
Yes. It is, actually, quite a beautiful process, a recollection of the love and kindness gifted through that relation. Grief will always follow love, because no love can ever be won that won't be lost. But when loss is truly accepted as implicit within love itself, then the experience of grief transforms dramatically from sorrow and despair to equanimity and compassion. You may cry, but you may also laugh, because you received a gift so beautiful and precious.
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:

Sentient Light
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Sentient Light » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:50 pm

Aemilius wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:21 am

Can you find the source for the other story also, please? -I haven't read it before.
It's in one of the BDK Agama translations, but I can't for the life of me remember which one.
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Địa tạng vương Bồ tát :bow:

Way-Fun
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by Way-Fun » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:28 pm

He sees the emptiness of dharmas that are, nevertheless, the fundamental constituents of reality. Empty friends and loved ones are the only kind you will ever know. Tears that are not tears, grief that is not grief. An empty chair is real enough to sit on.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: (Why) Did the Buddha grief his family?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:14 am

Simon E. wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:15 pm
Contrary to popular belief seeing the emptiness of Dharmas does not mean that one becomes an emotionless robot. Its just that one doesn't forge an identity around those emotions. They arise, they pass.
:good:
Identities are false and not true

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