Arrogance

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javier.espinoza.t
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Arrogance

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:48 am

Hello all,

How one's arrogance can be anihilated? There are many methods for diminish it, but still, ¿how can it be totally annihilated?
Identities are false and not true

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Queequeg
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Re: Arrogance

Post by Queequeg » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:30 am

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to aging, not beyond aging, sees another who is aged, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to aging, not beyond aging. If I — who am subject to aging, not beyond aging — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is aged, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the [typical] young person's intoxication with youth entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to illness, not beyond illness, sees another who is ill, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to illness, not beyond illness. And if I — who am subject to illness, not beyond illness — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is ill, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the healthy person's intoxication with health entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to death, not beyond death, sees another who is dead, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to death, not beyond death. And if I — who am subject to death, not beyond death — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is dead, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the living person's intoxication with life entirely dropped away.
Anguttara Nikaya 3:38
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

smcj
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Re: Arrogance

Post by smcj » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:18 am

You wake up and see through it, like seeing that a mirage is not an oasis.

Of course it requires a Dharma practice to do that.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Vasana
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Re: Arrogance

Post by Vasana » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:29 am

(This an adapted version of some thoughts on this I wrote down for my own reminder recently)

In short, contemplating the inevitable varieties of suffering we will endure in samsara can reduce our inflated arrogance, pride, laziness etc.

We do not like to suffer. We prefer comfort and ease as opposed to discomfort and strenuous effort. We prefer safety to danger, health to illness, pleasure to pain, praise to blame, wealth to being poor, nice food as opposed to bad food. Gain as opposed to loss. Happiness as opposed to depression. Inspiration as opposed to dejction. Fearlessness as opposed to fear...Uninterrupted sleep as opposed to interrupted sleep. Living as opposed to dying. Encountering what is pleasing, not encountering what is displeasing and so on.

If we then consider things realistically; How likely will it be for us to encounter any of these in both the near and distant future - not in some fantasy but in our daily lives: discomfort, strenuous effort, danger, illness, blame, times of financial difficulty, ill health, displeasing food, loss, interrupted sleep, addiction, guilt, depression, dejection, fear and encountering what is displeasing, accidents and finally death.

If we then ask ourselves, how likely will our reactions to such experiences generate more suffering in the process? One by one, visualize all of these possible scenarios vividly to see whether or not our minds have been sufficiently trained to remain steadfast with the fluctuations of the worldly winds. (See Upajjhatthana Sutta in full: Subjects for Contemplation )

Suffering diminishes arrogance so routinely remembering the inevitable suffering of samsara can help put our self-inflated arrogance and egoic-grasping in perspective.

If we then ask ourselves, who in this world is sufficiently trained to first of all cope and endure, then to consider who is truly happy, truly possesing eudamonia and equanimity rather than conditoned by hedonic motivation and the 8 worldly winds ? Truly content, truly resilient, truly inspired, not weighed down by changes in the sense feilds or mental feild, who springs to mind?

Ideally our own teachers should come to mind and then the teachers who we have connections of inspiration and then the great masters of the past. These people have and do still exist in this world.

If we then ask ourselves how they achieved such qualities in this life alone, inevetiably we're led to the dharma they study, practice and teach which naturally includes all of the other desirable and supporting qualities for happiness, contentment and resilience in this life, let alone future lives and eventual liberation from samsara.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: Arrogance

Post by Dan74 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:20 am

Participation in Buddhist fora may not be the most efficient method it seems... :thinking:

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Re: Arrogance

Post by florin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:59 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:48 am
Hello all,

How one's arrogance can be anihilated? There are many methods for diminish it, but still, ¿how can it be totally annihilated?

One way is by understnding the emptiness of the proud self ad its object of pride. Sutra methods are very good for this. One of this could be the pratyekabuddha method for example where we investigate how we construe a self identity based on contact with our dimension, the emotions we create around that and the actions we take as a result of believing that we are this limited entity that is this or that.
The nature of diverse phenomena is non-dual. This means that both pure vision and impure vision are a manifestation of the energy of the primordial state. Even though in reality there is no duality, everything manifests separately. KG

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Re: Arrogance

Post by dude » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:12 pm

by annihilating consciousness and reducing the body to ashes

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Re: Arrogance

Post by Josef » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:56 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:48 am
Hello all,

How one's arrogance can be anihilated? There are many methods for diminish it, but still, ¿how can it be totally annihilated?
bodhicitta
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: Arrogance

Post by XXIlluminatingVoid72 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:36 am

Arrogance is corrupted wisdom. Cultivate genuine wisdom

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Arrogance

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:45 pm

Why do you want to get rid of arrogance?
Is it a cause of your suffering? Does it cause suffering to others?
If the answer is yes, if it's obvious, then by meditating on that, getting rid of arrogance should be relatively easy.
You can see it's like holding a burning log.

If the answer is no, then you can just observe it and that observation becomes the means for realization.
That means, you don't have to try to get rid of it. Instead, look at it and examine it and deconstruct it and try to find where it is and what its components are, what is causing it. Then, you identify the cause of arrogance... is it insecurity, for example?
Then you start looking at why that is happening, and you keep looking at the cause for each thing you find that your mind is doing.

The thing is, if you have this idea that being arrogant is bad, and you don't want to be bad, you want to be good
(to put it in very simplistic terms)
then you are really just trying to set up another cozy spot for your ego,
basically, trying to accomplish "non-arrogance" as though that in itself is a thing.
"YAY! I am finally non-arrogant!"
So, that's really the tricky part. It's still a "me" identifier.

Is mind's original nature arrogance? No. Is the nature of awareness arrogance? No.
So, the mind's awareness observes the arrogance, as though you were watching someone else's arrogance from a few feet away.
The arrogance becomes the object of ("your") awareness.
Then, you just let your mind be that awareness. That awareness itself is your "identity" for the moment, just for the moment.
You sort of "shift your focus".
Then, you don't have to try to get rid of arrogance. When your mind is resting in the awareness,
then it is doing that and simply not generating the arrogance to begin with.
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Arrogance

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:04 pm

is not that easy. it's deep shit, this arrogance of mine.

when you surprise youlself being arrogant instead of being contemplative in middle of a meditation, how could be... horrible. the only good thing is having find it out.

this is no happiness, arrogance.
Identities are false and not true

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Re: Arrogance

Post by humble.student » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:50 am

prostrations?

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Re: Arrogance

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:11 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:04 pm
is not that easy. it's deep shit, this arrogance of mine.

when you surprise youlself being arrogant instead of being contemplative in middle of a meditation, how could be... horrible. the only good thing is having find it out.

this is no happiness, arrogance.
Read the bio's of past masters and the ones in this life.Contemplate and mix with a
a good dose of Bodhicitta rinse and repeat until you are humble. :cheers:

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Arrogance

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:26 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:11 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:04 pm
is not that easy. it's deep shit, this arrogance of mine.

when you surprise youlself being arrogant instead of being contemplative in middle of a meditation, how could be... horrible. the only good thing is having find it out.

this is no happiness, arrogance.
Read the bio's of past masters and the ones in this life.Contemplate and mix with a
a good dose of Bodhicitta rinse and repeat until you are humble. :cheers:
frankly, i think the bios does not contain the part when they shit themselves or have problems with their commitments, namtars only says "oh , he/she endured so many problems" but bios are made with pure vision of their students so they are not reliable for real real life problems; also their circumstances are of the past ages, it doesn't correspond to this times :(

sorry if my language is too direct :smile:
Identities are false and not true

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Re: Arrogance

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:45 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:30 am
"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to aging, not beyond aging, sees another who is aged, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to aging, not beyond aging. If I — who am subject to aging, not beyond aging — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is aged, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the [typical] young person's intoxication with youth entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to illness, not beyond illness, sees another who is ill, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to illness, not beyond illness. And if I — who am subject to illness, not beyond illness — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is ill, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the healthy person's intoxication with health entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to death, not beyond death, sees another who is dead, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to death, not beyond death. And if I — who am subject to death, not beyond death — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is dead, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the living person's intoxication with life entirely dropped away.
Anguttara Nikaya 3:38
this is the best approach til now for diminish it, cleaning over and over <3
Identities are false and not true

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Re: Arrogance

Post by Josef » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:14 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:45 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:30 am
"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to aging, not beyond aging, sees another who is aged, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to aging, not beyond aging. If I — who am subject to aging, not beyond aging — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is aged, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the [typical] young person's intoxication with youth entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to illness, not beyond illness, sees another who is ill, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to illness, not beyond illness. And if I — who am subject to illness, not beyond illness — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is ill, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the healthy person's intoxication with health entirely dropped away.

"Even though I was endowed with such fortune, such total refinement, the thought occurred to me: 'When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to death, not beyond death, sees another who is dead, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to death, not beyond death. And if I — who am subject to death, not beyond death — were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is dead, that would not be fitting for me.' As I noticed this, the living person's intoxication with life entirely dropped away.
Anguttara Nikaya 3:38
this is the best approach til now for diminish it, cleaning over and over <3
Page 243 of The Treasury of Precious Qualities has a clear description of how the four immeasurables purify afflictive emotions, including arrogance.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: Arrogance

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:21 pm

It's one of the afflictions, best not to personalize it is as "I am arrogant" and to realize that there is no essential arrogance. I find that contemplating all the help I have received can undermine arrogant thoughts. Understanding that one's accomplishments as such are not really one's own helps a lot.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Queequeg
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Re: Arrogance

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:17 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:21 pm
It's one of the afflictions, best not to personalize it is as "I am arrogant" and to realize that there is no essential arrogance. I find that contemplating all the help I have received can undermine arrogant thoughts. Understanding that one's accomplishments as such are not really one's own helps a lot.
Yes. Gratitude practice is very effective in cultivating a humble disposition and appreciation of others.

Modern studies show that being grateful is very good for your mental health, too.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Arrogance

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:24 am

what about "i'm in middle of the sadhana, now i'm conteplating, now i'm satisfied"... this "contemplation" is just another fabrication!!!!!!
Identities are false and not true

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Josef
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Re: Arrogance

Post by Josef » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:16 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:24 am
what about "i'm in middle of the sadhana, now i'm conteplating, now i'm satisfied"... this "contemplation" is just another fabrication!!!!!!
That's distraction, which is the root of ignorance, which leads to the other afflictions.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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