Accuracy of internet koans

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Meido
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by Meido »

:namaste:
shanyin
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by shanyin »

Anders wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:03 am
shanyin wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:03 am
There is no Buddhist centers in where I live. I am thinking of moving to a place where there may be some Buddhist community. Moving has been on my mind for a long time because where I live I view myself as being treated as a second class citizen, and subhuman.
What's your general area? Maybe we can help? Long distance is not ideal of course (I'd know, my teacher is on another continent), but it can be made to work.

Actually, I think the role of the teacher in koan practice is more crucial in the work of figuring for yourself how to grapple with the koan than to have someone who can judge your answer. I liken it a bit to client centered therapy, where the therapist does not apply a framework of analysis on the situation but facilitates the client's process of developing his own organic understanding of the situation. The work proper is done by the client himself, yet it is doubtful that the same result would have been reached without the dynamic cooperative work with the therapist. Koan work is in similar ways a cooperative process.
In what way are you proposing to help?
shanyin
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by shanyin »

Anders wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:03 am
shanyin wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:03 am
There is no Buddhist centers in where I live. I am thinking of moving to a place where there may be some Buddhist community. Moving has been on my mind for a long time because where I live I view myself as being treated as a second class citizen, and subhuman.
What's your general area? Maybe we can help? Long distance is not ideal of course (I'd know, my teacher is on another continent), but it can be made to work.

Actually, I think the role of the teacher in koan practice is more crucial in the work of figuring for yourself how to grapple with the koan than to have someone who can judge your answer. I liken it a bit to client centered therapy, where the therapist does not apply a framework of analysis on the situation but facilitates the client's process of developing his own organic understanding of the situation. The work proper is done by the client himself, yet it is doubtful that the same result would have been reached without the dynamic cooperative work with the therapist. Koan work is in similar ways a cooperative process.
In what way are you proposing to help?
shanyin
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 4:49 am

Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by shanyin »

What is the true form of the koan what is the sound of one hand clapping? Is it two hands clap and there is no sound, what is the sound of one hand?
Meido
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by Meido »

passel
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by passel »

Meido wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:52 am Here.
Oo. Cool book, I wasn't aware of it, thank you.

We should get an Abe thread going, and a Hisamatsu thread after that.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
shanyin
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by shanyin »

Is there a different form of that koan?
Meido
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by Meido »

passel wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:12 am Here.
Oo. Cool book, I wasn't aware of it, thank you.
No problem. I haven't read it actually, but I knew Yampolsky had translated Hakuin's Yabukoji and searched for that. Abe there quotes Yampolsky's The Zen Master Hakuin: Selected Writings which has the rest of Yabukoji as well.
shanyin wrote: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:56 am Is there a different form of that koan?
Sure:

shanyin
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by shanyin »

You posted a video of the Simpsons. I am trying to find the true form of that koan, there are different ones on the internet. Do you believe that the one in the book you mentioned is the right one?
Meido
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by Meido »

The true form of the koan is however it is given by one's teacher, since it is not a practice one does on one's own.

But yes, the quote from Hakuin - who devised that koan - is a standard wording.

The versions you asked about, "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" and "Two hands clap and there is no sound, what is the sound of one hand?" are both inaccurate. The former of these is found commonly everywhere...hence the Simpsons.
shanyin
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by shanyin »

Thank you
shanyin
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Re: Accuracy of internet koans

Post by shanyin »

You guys have been awsome! Thanks for the great answers! I'm not sure why I am asking. Of course, I think it would be fun to go to a zen centre and try koans. I think just doing anapanasati and focusing on my belly would be great for me. I enjoy it. As far as being disturbed I think I just need someone to talk to, take my meds and grow up.
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