Emptiness

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
shanyin
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Emptiness

Post by shanyin » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:22 am

I have used the search bar to look for an answer on this but I couldn't find it.

What is emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism?

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Re: Emptiness

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:36 am

Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

shanyin
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Re: Emptiness

Post by shanyin » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:56 am

I'm trying to read the first two google pages. But isn't it empty of inherent existence?

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Emptiness

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:36 pm

shanyin wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:56 am
I'm trying to read the first two google pages. But isn't it empty of inherent existence?
when you have experience, in the very moment you define the experience, you left emptiness.
Identities are false and not true

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Grigoris
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:55 pm

shanyin wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:56 am
I'm trying to read the first two google pages. But isn't it empty of inherent existence?
Yes, emptiness is empty.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Wayfarer
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:42 pm

shanyin wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:56 am
I'm trying to read the first two google pages. But isn't it empty of inherent existence?
You're correct, those first two pages are quite hard to interpret, and understanding 'inherent existence' is quite difficult.

The best introduction to emptiness that I know of is by Venerable Thanissaro, Emptiness. It's only short. Have a read of that, if you have further questions on it, by all means raise them here.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

Jesse
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Jesse » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:55 am

I was once told, it's something you just 'have to get'... It's like a sudden understanding, in a sudden moment of time you will simply see, and experience it, and then your mind will instantly try to conceptualize it, and seek it out, and thus begins the path.

read as much about it as you want, you need a full intellectual understanding to begin with anyhow, and as you continue to practice you will begin to grasp it intuitively through direct experience.

The mind grasps at everything, at all understandings, experiences, sensations, emotions, thoughts.. then through this grasping, it spins a story that entirely engrosses you in samsara. Samsara... I would compare it to sleepwalking, or dreaming, and through practice, the causes and conditions of this dream are dismantled and destroyed, or some would say transformed.

Attachment, Aversion, Mental Grasping, Not understanding the mind, and having no control over the mind, all of these things obfuscate reality. They are deeply embedded karmic seeds that one must slowly transform through practice.

Typically through a consistent and good meditation practice, these things are temporarily suppressed( through samatha+vipassana) -- all grasping and aversion at either a gross, or subtle level will cease, and once this happens, you will have a glimpse of reality. (Emptiness).

Sometimes people must first be shown, other times it can simply happen through practice. I was personally shown reality, and then through meditation, I could recognize it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satori
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

thomaslaw
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Re: Emptiness

Post by thomaslaw » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:57 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:42 pm
shanyin wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:56 am
I'm trying to read the first two google pages. But isn't it empty of inherent existence?
You're correct, those first two pages are quite hard to interpret, and understanding 'inherent existence' is quite difficult.

The best introduction to emptiness that I know of is by Venerable Thanissaro, Emptiness. It's only short. Have a read of that, if you have further questions on it, by all means raise them here.
The following book may be useful for understanding Emptiness in Buddhism: The Notion of Emptiness in Early Buddhism, 1999, second edition, Motilal Banarsidass, Delhi, by Choong Mun-keat.

Thomas

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:32 am

नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

thomaslaw
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Re: Emptiness

Post by thomaslaw » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:34 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:32 am
I would also like to suggest for some like side reading Dependent Origination = Emptiness” —Nāgārjuna’s Innovation? An Examination of the Early and Mainstream Sectarian Textual Sources by Venerable Shì Huìfēng.
Good paper for the topic Emptiness. Do you know the published date and the full name of the Journal?

Thanks

Thomas

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Wayfarer
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Wayfarer » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:11 am

pretty heavy-duty academic reading, though. Thanissaro's is a better introduction for someone trying to get the basic drift.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

muni
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Re: Emptiness

Post by muni » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 am

when you have experience, in the very moment you define the experience, you left emptiness.
Thank you. A cut as appearances on 'this side' and emptiness at the 'other side'.

Broken *nondual equipoise*. Even cannot actually be broken, still broken/left. All definitions are phenomenal, and so as well all explained dharma 'about' emptiness. Perhaps how it is not can be said, to get a start. Only things-phenomena can be defined, not what is not phenomenal. It can only 'be pointed' in a variety of ways, never defined.
The mind grasps at everything, at all understandings, experiences, sensations, emotions, thoughts.. then through this grasping, it spins a story that entirely engrosses you in samsara.
:namaste:
“ Only the development of compassion and understanding for others can bring us the tranquility and happiness we all seek. ”
H H Dalai Lama

"Relax." nirvana-samsara do not stray from spaciousness.

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Grigoris
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:50 am

I would recommend the Lankvatara Sutra's chapter on emptiness.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Grigoris » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:09 am

Also Mipham Rinpoche's chapter on emptiness in his text "Gateway to Knowledge".
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Crazywisdom
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Crazywisdom » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:41 am

Shantideva I believe ch 9
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Coëmgenu » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:11 pm

thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:34 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:32 am
I would also like to suggest for some like side reading Dependent Origination = Emptiness” —Nāgārjuna’s Innovation? An Examination of the Early and Mainstream Sectarian Textual Sources by Venerable Shì Huìfēng.
Good paper for the topic Emptiness. Do you know the published date and the full name of the Journal?

Thanks

Thomas
Journal of the Centre for Buddhist Studies, Śrī Laṃkā, Vol XI, I don't know the date published.

At the end of the article, it says that "the author here is presently working on a full English translation of this work, to be titled An Investigation into Emptiness, to be published by Noble Path Publishing, USA."
नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

kausalya
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Re: Emptiness

Post by kausalya » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:00 pm

shanyin wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:22 am
I have used the search bar to look for an answer on this but I couldn't find it.

What is emptiness in Mahayana Buddhism?
The basic idea informing emptiness (according to my own feeble understanding) is that nothing whatsoever has come into existence in the absence of causes and conditions. Not comprehending this to the fullest extent, we look out at the world and assume that things exist as objects unto themselves, and that a real person created those objects, for example. This is short-sighted, and causes us to have distorted views about the world and our place in it.

When we understand how objects exist, we know that they aren't solid, in a sense, and our attachment to them (and to ourselves as self-existent entities) gradually evaporates. At that point, we have an opportunity to work without confusion for the benefit of others, in the time that we have, and avoid creating negative karma in the process.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

ItsRaining
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Re: Emptiness

Post by ItsRaining » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:03 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:11 am
pretty heavy-duty academic reading, though. Thanissaro's is a better introduction for someone trying to get the basic drift.
He asked for the meaning of emptiness in the Mahayana not the sravakayana.

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Re: Emptiness

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:59 am

Better to walk before you can run.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Josef
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Re: Emptiness

Post by Josef » Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:25 am

Crazywisdom wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:41 am
Shantideva I believe ch 9
Seconded.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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