How do you think it would be going? It is now 11.30pm I was working today from 9-5pm, then rested and did my one practice before going for training from 8-10 and now I have to do my other practice and eat some dinner before going to sleep and work again tomorrow morning. Add dealing with all the nonsense here as well. So how do you think it is going?Tenma wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:23 pmAh....................
(How did that go and how is it going?)
Disagreeing with Guru
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Couldn't you practice at like 8 AM? I mean if it is a pacifying deity, that is the best time for pacification(pardon the person this is being received from, but I'm pretty sure other lamas do the same practice of day aspects as well):Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:27 pmHow do you think it would be going? It is now 11.30pm I was working today from 9-5pm, then rested and did my one practice before going for training from 8-10 and now I have to do my other practice and eat some dinner before going to sleep and work again tomorrow morning. Add dealing with all the nonsense here as well. So how do you think it is going?
https://books.google.com/books?id=gwF9p ... es&f=false
- Könchok Thrinley
- Former staff member
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Re: Disagreeing with Guru
You have will of steel, man! inspiring.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:27 pmHow do you think it would be going? It is now 11.30pm I was working today from 9-5pm, then rested and did my one practice before going for training from 8-10 and now I have to do my other practice and eat some dinner before going to sleep and work again tomorrow morning. Add dealing with all the nonsense here as well. So how do you think it is going?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Oh yeah, I forgot: In the morning I lay out all the offerings...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
I never stated such a thing. The traditional recommendation is to observe a guru for 12 years before taking empowerments. Once one has taken empowerment, that person is one’s guru whether one has studied then for 12 years or one day.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:16 pmWould it be more suitable for me to assert that I do not feel like I have a guru? Or maybe to assert that for me merely satisfying some spiritual bureaucratic conditions is not enough to make me feel like a teacher is my guru? Would that make you feel better?I seem to remember you saying it somewhere. So how many years is it?Also your assertion that it takes 15 years for someone to become your guru is just incorrect.
- PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Disagreeing with Guru
It all depends on your motivation.
If your disagreement results from your being honest with yourself,
a good teacher will understand this, respect your honesty, and work with you from there.
.
.
.
If your disagreement results from your being honest with yourself,
a good teacher will understand this, respect your honesty, and work with you from there.
.
.
.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Could that take the form of studying e.g. the lam rim for 12 years before beginning tantric practice?
Could one receive lungs for mantras/texts without violating this guideline?
"For as long as space remains,
For as long as sentient beings remain,
Until then may I too remain
To dispel the miseries of the world."
(Shantideva)
For as long as sentient beings remain,
Until then may I too remain
To dispel the miseries of the world."
(Shantideva)
-
- Posts: 313
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:27 pmHow do you think it would be going? It is now 11.30pm I was working today from 9-5pm, then rested and did my one practice before going for training from 8-10 and now I have to do my other practice and eat some dinner before going to sleep and work again tomorrow morning. Add dealing with all the nonsense here as well. So how do you think it is going?
I’m going off topic for this but I think perhaps this is one of his skillfull ways to let people know that exotic pratices can never truly get one excited or happy forever as one would think it would.
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
A daily torma? Or the 8 offerings? Wouldn't that literally be part of a sadhana/practice? Or is this an entirely different practice as well?
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
12 years. Thank you. I was not sure if I remembered correctly
I have had teachers that came closer to fulfilling the role of the guru than quite a few of those that gave me empowerments (ie turned up one time, gave some empowerments and vanished).Once one has taken empowerment, that person is one’s guru whether one has studied then for 12 years or one day.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
All these years I thought guru is dependent on samaya.
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
You should refrain from asking people for details of their practices.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Aha. Thanks for that reminder.Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:09 amI never stated such a thing. The traditional recommendation is to observe a guru for 12 years before taking empowerments. Once one has taken empowerment, that person is one’s guru whether one has studied then for 12 years or one day.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:16 pmWould it be more suitable for me to assert that I do not feel like I have a guru? Or maybe to assert that for me merely satisfying some spiritual bureaucratic conditions is not enough to make me feel like a teacher is my guru? Would that make you feel better?I seem to remember you saying it somewhere. So how many years is it?Also your assertion that it takes 15 years for someone to become your guru is just incorrect.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
This latter event: from my experience which isn’t a lot the latter type were the better gurus.Grigoris wrote: ↑Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:35 am12 years. Thank you. I was not sure if I remembered correctlyI have had teachers that came closer to fulfilling the role of the guru than quite a few of those that gave me empowerments (ie turned up one time, gave some empowerments and vanished).Once one has taken empowerment, that person is one’s guru whether one has studied then for 12 years or one day.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Does a guru have to give empowerments? Or can a lama be a guru without giving thus?Grigoris wrote: ↑Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:35 am12 years. Thank you. I was not sure if I remembered correctlyI have had teachers that came closer to fulfilling the role of the guru than quite a few of those that gave me empowerments (ie turned up one time, gave some empowerments and vanished).Once one has taken empowerment, that person is one’s guru whether one has studied then for 12 years or one day.
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Nevertheless, the definition of a guru is very precise in Vajryana. The guru is one from whom empowerment and samaya Is recieved.Grigoris wrote: ↑Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:35 am12 years. Thank you. I was not sure if I remembered correctlyI have had teachers that came closer to fulfilling the role of the guru than quite a few of those that gave me empowerments (ie turned up one time, gave some empowerments and vanished).Once one has taken empowerment, that person is one’s guru whether one has studied then for 12 years or one day.
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
Not sure where I heard this, but one view seems to be that a person who gives you even one line of Dharma teaching (maybe it was one verse) should be treasured similarly to a guru, even if there is technically no samaya.
I wouldn't say it seems like the same thing as what we're saying, but it's interesting to keep in mind. Really expands one's sense of our debt of gratitude to sentient beings, considering that Dharma isn't limited to the Buddhadharma, but can be "anything that is well-spoken."
"For as long as space remains,
For as long as sentient beings remain,
Until then may I too remain
To dispel the miseries of the world."
(Shantideva)
For as long as sentient beings remain,
Until then may I too remain
To dispel the miseries of the world."
(Shantideva)
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
I've forgotten where I read it but doesn't the process then lead to treating all Gurus as one, and untimately a Guruyoga without a specific human form in mind?Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:11 pmNevertheless, the definition of a guru is very precise in Vajryana. The guru is one from whom empowerment and samaya Is recieved.Grigoris wrote: ↑Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:35 am12 years. Thank you. I was not sure if I remembered correctlyI have had teachers that came closer to fulfilling the role of the guru than quite a few of those that gave me empowerments (ie turned up one time, gave some empowerments and vanished).Once one has taken empowerment, that person is one’s guru whether one has studied then for 12 years or one day.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
In the Kagyu Ngondro you visualise the guru in the form of Vajradhara.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Disagreeing with Guru
'
Yes.
I think the other apect I was thinking of was the inner Guruyoga:
Gyalwai Nyugu Rinpoche (Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche) from the Guruyoga Practice Guide:
'When we rest in the state of visualising the Guru’s appearance inseparable from one’s own
mind, we realise the meaning that this state, free from discriminative thoughts or attachments
and possessing clarity, is just our ordinary mind merging with the Guru’s wisdom mind. As
our view deepens, we finally recognise the definitive ultimate meaning of emptiness which is
the inner self-nature Guru. Continuing to rest in the pure basic nature of one’s mind is the
inner Guru Yoga.''
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)