Bodhicitta is fleeting...

General forum on the teachings of all schools of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism. Topics specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
MatthewAngby
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:21 am

This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “

Simon E.
Posts: 5562
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Simon E. » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:47 pm

Perhaps one problem here is the idea that we can and should 'save' people Matthew.

Another way of thinking about Bodhicitta in addition to the usual idea of generating it is to see that it is always available. It is not different from our original mind. So rather than talking about generating Bodhicitta it might be useful to think about uncovering it.
Just as clouds sometimes cover the sun, our afflicted minds obscure Bodhicitta.
The answer is not to grit our teeth and will the clouds away, it is more useful to relax deeply into what is always already the case.



I am not qualified to talk about Arhatship.
Taking advantage of a temporary situation. Back for a short time only folks.

User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 7012
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Astus » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:12 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:21 am
“Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”
All beings are jerks. To expect otherwise is delusion that, obviously, all beings suffer from. Also, the idea that one can save another is one more delusion. The bodhisattva path is therefore to save all beings while it is clear that there is nobody to save anybody. Without the latter part it is not the bodhisattva path, rather some sort of messiah complex.

For usual teachings on the issue, check topics like relative and ultimate bodhicitta, and kshanti-paramita.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

Jeff H
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:56 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Jeff H » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:45 pm

Astus wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:12 pm
MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:21 am
“Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”
All beings are jerks. To expect otherwise is delusion that, obviously, all beings suffer from. Also, the idea that one can save another is one more delusion. The bodhisattva path is therefore to save all beings while it is clear that there is nobody to save anybody. Without the latter part it is not the bodhisattva path, rather some sort of messiah complex.

For usual teachings on the issue, check topics like relative and ultimate bodhicitta, and kshanti-paramita.
Astus' response is a real gem. Meditate on that. Also read chapter six in Shantideva's The Way of the Bodhisattva.

The path is not a straight line or an instant fix.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

User avatar
yan kong
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:01 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by yan kong » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:51 pm

It takes more time than a few weeks to cultivate good qualities.

People I find are generally self serving rather than intentionally evil. Keeping this in mind I find it easier to forgive their rougher qualities.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2198
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Josef » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:34 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:21 am
This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “
Patrul and Khenpo Kunpal advise that in cases such as this we should reflect on the benefit that is derived by patience toward aggressors. Their aggression gives us the opportunity to practice the perfection of patience which leads us to higher realization and through benefiting us they too are propelled toward virtue.
This is an opportunity for you to practice, which is precious and powerful.
Dont allow yourself to become discouraged.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 3343
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Virgo » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:27 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:21 am
This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “
Your familiar with tonglen right? Recall how good it feels to have real bodhicitta.

Kevin...
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


http://caretoclick.com/clean-the-enviro ... -phone-use

MatthewAngby
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by MatthewAngby » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:09 am

Virgo wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:27 pm
MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:21 am
This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “
Your familiar with tonglen right? Recall how good it feels to have real bodhicitta.

Kevin...

Yes, perhaps I should include it in My daily pratice. But it is very weird , every morning I wake up, the bodhicitta or renunciation I had yesterday is almost gone, only to arise again throughout the day, because I will have recited some poems on bodhicitta and recall the shortcomings of samsara. So I don’t know how I can ever get this two realisations 24/7

User avatar
Empty Desire
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:48 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Empty Desire » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:40 am

You need help with it.

This Bodhisattva path is a constant flow of help.

When Bodhicitta was the most strong in my path was through Garchen Rinpoche. A good example would be when receiving an Empowerment from him.

If we fight with others, it is afflictions mind. Look at Lam-Rim, Ngondro practices like White Tara.
No Beginning, No End, Just Mind......

Attachment's True Face is Aversion....

User avatar
javier.espinoza.t
Posts: 827
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Location: Chile

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:17 am

"He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me" — for those who brood on this, hostility isn't stilled.

"He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me" — for those who don't brood on this, hostility is stilled.

Hostilities aren't stilled through hostility, regardless. Hostilities are stilled through non-hostility: this, an unending truth.
this are just two precious verses from the dhammapada.

as I get it, one can develop boddhicita only once one have firmly grasped the ajimsa principle.

don't subestatimate the words of the buddha, don't make the mistake of think on the older yanas as "lower".

ask yourself honestly why you want to develop boddhicitta, you might get a surprise.

one thing is reading books and hearing a lama, and other very very diferent is understanding why buddha said what he said.

do worry about this.
Identities are false and not true

amanitamusc
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:34 am

Astus wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:12 pm
MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:21 am
“Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”
All beings are jerks. To expect otherwise is delusion that, obviously, all beings suffer from. Also, the idea that one can save another is one more delusion. The bodhisattva path is therefore to save all beings while it is clear that there is nobody to save anybody. Without the latter part it is not the bodhisattva path, rather some sort of messiah complex.

For usual teachings on the issue, check topics like relative and ultimate bodhicitta, and kshanti-paramita.
You calling my Mama a jerk Astus? :jedi: :twisted:

amanitamusc
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:53 am

Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:47 pm
Perhaps one problem here is the idea that we can and should 'save' people Matthew.

Another way of thinking about Bodhicitta in addition to the usual idea of generating it is to see that it is always available. It is not different from our original mind. So rather than talking about generating Bodhicitta it might be useful to think about uncovering it.
Just as clouds sometimes cover the sun, our afflicted minds obscure Bodhicitta.
The answer is not to grit our teeth and will the clouds away, it is more useful to relax deeply into what is always already the case.



I am not qualified to talk about Arhatship.
This.
Bodhicitta is your true nature so you can't lose it.
Thats never stopped me from being a jerk. ;)

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8141
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:19 am

When you lose it and get pissed off like that, one of my teachers says to bring it back by saying "may I be free of this ignorance, anger, greed" etc. (because it's -you- involved in the afflictions when that happens), then once you've calmed, extend it to those you are upset with "may they be free of this ignorance, anger" etc. Finding the feeling and extending it.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

Simon E.
Posts: 5562
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:27 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:53 am
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:47 pm
Perhaps one problem here is the idea that we can and should 'save' people Matthew.

Another way of thinking about Bodhicitta in addition to the usual idea of generating it is to see that it is always available. It is not different from our original mind. So rather than talking about generating Bodhicitta it m :smile: ight be useful to think about uncovering it.
Just as clouds sometimes cover the sun, our afflicted minds obscure Bodhicitta.
The answer is not to grit our teeth and will the clouds away, it is more useful to relax deeply into what is always already the case.



I am not qualified to talk about Arhatship.
This.
Bodhicitta is your true nature so you can't lose it.
Thats never stopped me from being a jerk. ;)
Me neither..but what is the expression? Six times down, seven times up. Or to quote Churchill, 'keep on buggering on'. :smile:
Taking advantage of a temporary situation. Back for a short time only folks.

Ogaf
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:05 pm

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Ogaf » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:45 am

...Madness, takes its toll
But listen closely..
(Not for very much longer)
I've got to keep control

Ahem, well as a man you will always be a dickhead in any given situation, or a jerk as the North Americans would say. If you're lucky you may grow out of it -or at least limit the impact on others - by always remembering you're the dickhead in any given situation.
I recall Khandro Rinpoche saying one time we should have this aspiration "May I free all sentient beings...from myself."
To free oneself of dukkha in order to reduce the dukkha you cause others is a noble way of freeing others of dukkha by changing and saving the only damn thing you have any hope of changing in this world; yourself.
I was on a drug fuelled bender at your age, that you're instead trying to be more compassionate and understanding means you're doing good, mate :applause: :twothumbsup:

Simon E.
Posts: 5562
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:53 am

' May I free all sentient beings ..from myself'


:twothumbsup:
Taking advantage of a temporary situation. Back for a short time only folks.

haha
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 pm

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by haha » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:24 am

I believe that the sprout of bodhicitta will be replaced by “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”.
:smile:

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

MatthewAngby
Posts: 296
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by MatthewAngby » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:51 am

Thank you; I will keep these advice to pratice. May the enlightenment mind arise where it is not arisen , may it be where it is arisen , never to wane but to constantly grow. ( P.S. after my mind calms down a while , it is much easier now )

amanitamusc
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:33 pm

haha wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:24 am
I believe that the sprout of bodhicitta will be replaced by “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”.
:smile:
So wise! :rolleye:Haha are you Dzogpachumpo's top by any chance?

haha
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 pm

Re: Bodhicitta is fleeting...

Post by haha » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:57 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:33 pm
haha wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:24 am
I believe that the sprout of bodhicitta will be replaced by “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”.
:smile:
So wise! :rolleye:Haha are you Dzogpachumpo's top by any chance?
No idea.
I just say it. If one has a child and that child has done something unpleasant (i.e he broke the phone or pot anything that one loves), one doesn't say to him, "you are just a jerk, I will leave you in the middle of the street of another city."

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

Post Reply

Return to “Mahāyāna Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests