Bodhicitta is fleeting...

[MatthewAngby]

This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “

[Simon E.]

Perhaps one problem here is the idea that we can and should 'save' people Matthew.

Another way of thinking about Bodhicitta in addition to the usual idea of generating it is to see that it is always available. It is not different from our original mind. So rather than talking about generating Bodhicitta it might be useful to think about uncovering it.
Just as clouds sometimes cover the sun, our afflicted minds obscure Bodhicitta.
The answer is not to grit our teeth and will the clouds away, it is more useful to relax deeply into what is always already the case.



I am not qualified to talk about Arhatship.

[Astus]

“Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

All beings are jerks. To expect otherwise is delusion that, obviously, all beings suffer from. Also, the idea that one can save another is one more delusion. The bodhisattva path is therefore to save all beings while it is clear that there is nobody to save anybody. Without the latter part it is not the bodhisattva path, rather some sort of messiah complex.

For usual teachings on the issue, check topics like relative and ultimate bodhicitta, and kshanti-paramita.

[Jeff H]

“Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

All beings are jerks. To expect otherwise is delusion that, obviously, all beings suffer from. Also, the idea that one can save another is one more delusion. The bodhisattva path is therefore to save all beings while it is clear that there is nobody to save anybody. Without the latter part it is not the bodhisattva path, rather some sort of messiah complex.

For usual teachings on the issue, check topics like relative and ultimate bodhicitta, and kshanti-paramita.

Astus' response is a real gem. Meditate on that. Also read chapter six in Shantideva's The Way of the Bodhisattva.

The path is not a straight line or an instant fix.

[yan kong]

It takes more time than a few weeks to cultivate good qualities.

People I find are generally self serving rather than intentionally evil. Keeping this in mind I find it easier to forgive their rougher qualities.

[Josef]

This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “

Patrul and Khenpo Kunpal advise that in cases such as this we should reflect on the benefit that is derived by patience toward aggressors. Their aggression gives us the opportunity to practice the perfection of patience which leads us to higher realization and through benefiting us they too are propelled toward virtue.
This is an opportunity for you to practice, which is precious and powerful.
Dont allow yourself to become discouraged.

[Virgo]

This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “

Your familiar with tonglen right? Recall how good it feels to have real bodhicitta.

Kevin...

[MatthewAngby]

This past few weeks I have been trying to generate bodhicitta, which worked ( tho not a really strong one ). Yesterday after a heated argument , I found it really difficult to develop bodhicitta for beings - whenever I think of that enemy, I would just say “ hm, better to leave you all behind , since I don’t even like you or you’re just an ass”. So yes, my bodhicitta has faded. Now how do all of you ever arouse bodhicitta when you are faced with people who disturb you a lot , how do you not say “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

As of right now, I am fleeting between the arhat path and the Buddhahood path, which always tend to happen after fights. So another question would be, “ do arhats feel joy and happiness? Or do they only Feel great peace? “

Your familiar with tonglen right? Recall how good it feels to have real bodhicitta.

Kevin...

Yes, perhaps I should include it in My daily pratice. But it is very weird , every morning I wake up, the bodhicitta or renunciation I had yesterday is almost gone, only to arise again throughout the day, because I will have recited some poems on bodhicitta and recall the shortcomings of samsara. So I don’t know how I can ever get this two realisations 24/7

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

You need help with it.

This Bodhisattva path is a constant flow of help.

When Bodhicitta was the most strong in my path was through Garchen Rinpoche. A good example would be when receiving an Empowerment from him.

If we fight with others, it is afflictions mind. Look at Lam-Rim, Ngondro practices like White Tara.

[jet.urgyen]

"He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me" — for those who brood on this, hostility isn't stilled.

"He insulted me, hit me, beat me, robbed me" — for those who don't brood on this, hostility is stilled.

Hostilities aren't stilled through hostility, regardless. Hostilities are stilled through non-hostility: this, an unending truth.

this are just two precious verses from the dhammapada.

as I get it, one can develop boddhicita only once one have firmly grasped the ajimsa principle.

don't subestatimate the words of the buddha, don't make the mistake of think on the older yanas as "lower".

ask yourself honestly why you want to develop boddhicitta, you might get a surprise.

one thing is reading books and hearing a lama, and other very very diferent is understanding why buddha said what he said.

do worry about this.

[amanitamusc]

“Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”

All beings are jerks. To expect otherwise is delusion that, obviously, all beings suffer from. Also, the idea that one can save another is one more delusion. The bodhisattva path is therefore to save all beings while it is clear that there is nobody to save anybody. Without the latter part it is not the bodhisattva path, rather some sort of messiah complex.

For usual teachings on the issue, check topics like relative and ultimate bodhicitta, and kshanti-paramita.

You calling my Mama a jerk Astus?

[amanitamusc]

Perhaps one problem here is the idea that we can and should 'save' people Matthew.

Another way of thinking about Bodhicitta in addition to the usual idea of generating it is to see that it is always available. It is not different from our original mind. So rather than talking about generating Bodhicitta it might be useful to think about uncovering it.
Just as clouds sometimes cover the sun, our afflicted minds obscure Bodhicitta.
The answer is not to grit our teeth and will the clouds away, it is more useful to relax deeply into what is always already the case.



I am not qualified to talk about Arhatship.

This.
Bodhicitta is your true nature so you can't lose it.
Thats never stopped me from being a jerk.

[Johnny Dangerous]

When you lose it and get pissed off like that, one of my teachers says to bring it back by saying "may I be free of this ignorance, anger, greed" etc. (because it's -you- involved in the afflictions when that happens), then once you've calmed, extend it to those you are upset with "may they be free of this ignorance, anger" etc. Finding the feeling and extending it.

[Simon E.]

Perhaps one problem here is the idea that we can and should 'save' people Matthew.

Another way of thinking about Bodhicitta in addition to the usual idea of generating it is to see that it is always available. It is not different from our original mind. So rather than talking about generating Bodhicitta it m ight be useful to think about uncovering it.
Just as clouds sometimes cover the sun, our afflicted minds obscure Bodhicitta.
The answer is not to grit our teeth and will the clouds away, it is more useful to relax deeply into what is always already the case.



I am not qualified to talk about Arhatship.

This.
Bodhicitta is your true nature so you can't lose it.
Thats never stopped me from being a jerk.

Me neither..but what is the expression? Six times down, seven times up. Or to quote Churchill, 'keep on buggering on'.

[Ogaf]

...Madness, takes its toll
But listen closely..
(Not for very much longer)
I've got to keep control

Ahem, well as a man you will always be a dickhead in any given situation, or a jerk as the North Americans would say. If you're lucky you may grow out of it -or at least limit the impact on others - by always remembering you're the dickhead in any given situation.
I recall Khandro Rinpoche saying one time we should have this aspiration "May I free all sentient beings...from myself."
To free oneself of dukkha in order to reduce the dukkha you cause others is a noble way of freeing others of dukkha by changing and saving the only damn thing you have any hope of changing in this world; yourself.
I was on a drug fuelled bender at your age, that you're instead trying to be more compassionate and understanding means you're doing good, mate

[Simon E.]

' May I free all sentient beings ..from myself'

[haha]

I believe that the sprout of bodhicitta will be replaced by “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”.

[MatthewAngby]

Thank you; I will keep these advice to pratice. May the enlightenment mind arise where it is not arisen , may it be where it is arisen , never to wane but to constantly grow. ( P.S. after my mind calms down a while , it is much easier now )

[amanitamusc]

I believe that the sprout of bodhicitta will be replaced by “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”.

So wise! :rolleye:Haha are you Dzogpachumpo's top by any chance?

[haha]

I believe that the sprout of bodhicitta will be replaced by “ Why bother to save you if you’re such a jerk!”.

So wise! :rolleye:Haha are you Dzogpachumpo's top by any chance?

No idea.
I just say it. If one has a child and that child has done something unpleasant (i.e he broke the phone or pot anything that one loves), one doesn't say to him, "you are just a jerk, I will leave you in the middle of the street of another city."