What is permanent in mahayana?
- AkashicBrother
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What is permanent in mahayana?
im having diffculty undestanding some mahayana concepts. according to nagarjuna nothing is permanent and everything is empty (sunyata). however some buddhist texts say that things like the dharmakaya and the dharmadatu are permanent and the dharmic laws are constant. does that change with the buddhist school or there is a way to balance such concepts ?
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
To my shallow understanding, nothing is permanent, except dharma, such as cosmos laws and impermance.
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
The dharmakaya is permanent in Mahayana, in dzogchen it´s not.bikunbodhi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:53 am To my shallow understanding, nothing is permanent, except dharma, such as cosmos laws and impermance.
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
dharmakaya is not something in the object-sense, it's called dimension but it is has no space, etc. not permanent nor impermanent.jhanapeacock wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:15 amThe dharmakaya is permanent in Mahayana, in dzogchen it´s not.bikunbodhi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:53 am To my shallow understanding, nothing is permanent, except dharma, such as cosmos laws and impermance.
afaik in mahayana there are some philosophies, but one should stick to the facts, and the facts until here is that there is no such thing in that can be labeled as permanent. even dharma can be wiped out of existence, even samsara can be emptyed, even perfect full enlightenment can be turned toward causality, etc.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
- Supramundane
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
even sunyata is not permanent, as Nagarjuna took pains to explain that even that was empty.
anyone looking for permanence in Buddhism will be disappointed.
even impermanence is not a permanent principle!
i guess impermanence is not what it used to be (sigh).
anyone looking for permanence in Buddhism will be disappointed.
even impermanence is not a permanent principle!
i guess impermanence is not what it used to be (sigh).
- Tsongkhapafan
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
I think it's important to distinguish between permanent and eternal. Permanent means unchanging because it doesn't depend upon causes and conditions. Our mental continuum, on the other hand, is eternal (it will never cease) but it is changing moment by moment and is therefore impermanent.
Emptiness is permanent because it doesn't depend on causes and conditions, but it is not eternal. The emptiness of my body of yesterday, for example, no longer exists because my body of yesterday no longer exists.
What is permanent in Mahayana Buddhism? all non-affirming negative phenomena. A non-affirming negative is a negative phenomenon realized by a mind that merely eliminates its object of negation without realizing another phenomenon. The absence of a horn on a rabbit’s head is an example of a non-affirming negative because the mind that realizes this merely eliminates the object of negation, a horn on a rabbit’s head, without realizing another phenomenon. All emptinesses are non-affirming negative phenomena as well as unproduced space.
True cessations are also permanent phenomena because they are the emptiness of a mind that has attained the final abandonment of any fault. This means that nirvana is also permanent because it is a true cessation.
It's also said that generic images (the appearing objects of conceptual minds) are permanent because, for as long as they last, they are unchanging.
Emptiness is permanent because it doesn't depend on causes and conditions, but it is not eternal. The emptiness of my body of yesterday, for example, no longer exists because my body of yesterday no longer exists.
What is permanent in Mahayana Buddhism? all non-affirming negative phenomena. A non-affirming negative is a negative phenomenon realized by a mind that merely eliminates its object of negation without realizing another phenomenon. The absence of a horn on a rabbit’s head is an example of a non-affirming negative because the mind that realizes this merely eliminates the object of negation, a horn on a rabbit’s head, without realizing another phenomenon. All emptinesses are non-affirming negative phenomena as well as unproduced space.
True cessations are also permanent phenomena because they are the emptiness of a mind that has attained the final abandonment of any fault. This means that nirvana is also permanent because it is a true cessation.
It's also said that generic images (the appearing objects of conceptual minds) are permanent because, for as long as they last, they are unchanging.
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
Thank you for your insightful input. I agree that samsara is impermanent. Dharma is possibly impermanent but we probably would never know in our lifetime or with history.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:36 amdharmakaya is not something in the object-sense, it's called dimension but it is has no space, etc. not permanent nor impermanent.jhanapeacock wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:15 amThe dharmakaya is permanent in Mahayana, in dzogchen it´s not.bikunbodhi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:53 am To my shallow understanding, nothing is permanent, except dharma, such as cosmos laws and impermance.
afaik in mahayana there are some philosophies, but one should stick to the facts, and the facts until here is that there is no such thing in that can be labeled as permanent. even dharma can be wiped out of existence, even samsara can be emptyed, even perfect full enlightenment can be turned toward causality, etc.
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
one day before Buddha Shakyamunni's wheel turning was there any buddhadarma? clearly buddhadharma was wiped out from here.bikunbodhi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:04 pmThank you for your insightful input. I agree that samsara is impermanent. Dharma is possibly impermanent but we probably would never know in our lifetime or with history.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:36 amdharmakaya is not something in the object-sense, it's called dimension but it is has no space, etc. not permanent nor impermanent.jhanapeacock wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:15 am
The dharmakaya is permanent in Mahayana, in dzogchen it´s not.
afaik in mahayana there are some philosophies, but one should stick to the facts, and the facts until here is that there is no such thing in that can be labeled as permanent. even dharma can be wiped out of existence, even samsara can be emptyed, even perfect full enlightenment can be turned toward causality, etc.
even in sutras there is a span for the dharma to exist.
why you mean possibly?
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
Samsara is not a place. It cannot be emptied nor filled.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:36 amdharmakaya is not something in the object-sense, it's called dimension but it is has no space, etc. not permanent nor impermanent.jhanapeacock wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:15 amThe dharmakaya is permanent in Mahayana, in dzogchen it´s not.bikunbodhi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:53 am To my shallow understanding, nothing is permanent, except dharma, such as cosmos laws and impermance.
afaik in mahayana there are some philosophies, but one should stick to the facts, and the facts until here is that there is no such thing in that can be labeled as permanent. even dharma can be wiped out of existence, even samsara can be emptyed, even perfect full enlightenment can be turned toward causality, etc.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
haha! an imaginary place, but a place with for cause and effect.Simon E. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:32 pmSamsara is not a place. It cannot be emptied nor filled.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:36 amdharmakaya is not something in the object-sense, it's called dimension but it is has no space, etc. not permanent nor impermanent.jhanapeacock wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:15 am
The dharmakaya is permanent in Mahayana, in dzogchen it´s not.
afaik in mahayana there are some philosophies, but one should stick to the facts, and the facts until here is that there is no such thing in that can be labeled as permanent. even dharma can be wiped out of existence, even samsara can be emptyed, even perfect full enlightenment can be turned toward causality, etc.
emm is samboghakaya or pureland a real place? hahahahaha
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
Can you give some examples?AkashicBrother wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:00 am some buddhist texts say that things like the dharmakaya and the dharmadatu are permanent and the dharmic laws are constant.
- Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
Dividing it into its various aspects, dharmakāya has eight characteristic qualities — namely, being identical, profound, permanent, unitary, right, pure, lumionous, and linked to the enjoyment body. [...] It is permanent because it is not composite; it is without coming into being or cessation; and it is without beginning, middle, or end.
Sgam-po-pa, Ken Holmes, and Thupten Jinpa. Ornament of Precious Liberation. Somerville, MA: Wisdom Publications, 2017, p. 284.
Sgam-po-pa, Ken Holmes, and Thupten Jinpa. Ornament of Precious Liberation. Somerville, MA: Wisdom Publications, 2017, p. 284.
It has been the misfortune (not, as these gentlemen think it, the glory) of this age that everything is to be discussed. Edmund Burke, Reflections on the Revolution in France.
Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
No, not an imaginary place. Not a place at all. Neither is the samboghakaya.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:00 pmhaha! an imaginary place, but a place with for cause and effect.Simon E. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:32 pmSamsara is not a place. It cannot be emptied nor filled.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:36 am
dharmakaya is not something in the object-sense, it's called dimension but it is has no space, etc. not permanent nor impermanent.
afaik in mahayana there are some philosophies, but one should stick to the facts, and the facts until here is that there is no such thing in that can be labeled as permanent. even dharma can be wiped out of existence, even samsara can be emptyed, even perfect full enlightenment can be turned toward causality, etc.
emm is samboghakaya or pureland a real place? hahahahaha
The Pureland is as real as this Saha world.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
- AkashicBrother
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
isn the dharmakaya permanent ? this link points to some mahayana canon sutras that stablish this. please avoid antinomian thinking. lets focus on the
texts for a while. https://books.google.com.br/books?id=WX ... ra&f=false
texts for a while. https://books.google.com.br/books?id=WX ... ra&f=false
- AkashicBrother
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
this link points to some sutras that say the dharmakay is permanent.
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=WX ... ra&f=false
https://books.google.com.br/books?id=WX ... ra&f=false
Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
Compound phenomena are impermanent. If something isn't compounded, such as the element of space, it is not impermanent.AkashicBrother wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:00 am im having diffculty undestanding some mahayana concepts. according to nagarjuna nothing is permanent and everything is empty (sunyata). however some buddhist texts say that things like the dharmakaya and the dharmadatu are permanent and the dharmic laws are constant. does that change with the buddhist school or there is a way to balance such concepts ?
- Sonam Wangchug
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
Second turning of the wheel, Third turning of the wheel.AkashicBrother wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:00 am im having diffculty undestanding some mahayana concepts. according to nagarjuna nothing is permanent and everything is empty (sunyata). however some buddhist texts say that things like the dharmakaya and the dharmadatu are permanent and the dharmic laws are constant. does that change with the buddhist school or there is a way to balance such concepts ?
Depending on who you ask though, Mileage may vary.
They are not contradictory BTW.
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
i really like this talks <3Simon E. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:09 pmNo, not an imaginary place. Not a place at all. Neither is the samboghakaya.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:00 pmhaha! an imaginary place, but a place with for cause and effect.
emm is samboghakaya or pureland a real place? hahahahaha
The Pureland is as real as this Saha world.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
- kalden yungdrung
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Re: What is permanent in mahayana?
Tashi delek ,AkashicBrother wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:00 am im having diffculty undestanding some mahayana concepts. according to nagarjuna nothing is permanent and everything is empty (sunyata). however some buddhist texts say that things like the dharmakaya and the dharmadatu are permanent and the dharmic laws are constant. does that change with the buddhist school or there is a way to balance such concepts ?
Nagaryuna is sometimes difficult to understand if emptiness is explained.
Sure there are things in Buddhism which are permanent and that would be Compassion and Wisdom based on Self Awareness.
It are the 2 legs of a Buddha and also we have those qualities inherent present, IF we can be aware of it.
Dharmakaya represents the all encompassing emptiness and can be equaled to Nature.
Dharmakaya is unborn and is never ending, it has no cause so it goes beyond all dualisms.
They say that via Madymika Emptiness , the Dzogchen Emptiness can be understood.......
Some have less difficulties in understanding Dzogchen Emptiness, because it is a very creative entity and not only a negation of dualisms.
The best meditation is no meditation