One hand clapping

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shanyin
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One hand clapping

Post by shanyin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:08 am

What is the true form (words) of the koan about one hand clapping? Is it Two hands clap and there is no sound, what is the sound of one hand? Or Two hands clap and there is a sound, now what is the sound of one hand? Or Two hands clap and they make a sound what is the sound of one hand? Not sure.

I'd like to know what it is. I want to do this koan because I want something to think about especially during meditation.

Any help would be appreciated.

Metta.

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passel
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by passel » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:50 am

What is the sound of one hand is truest to the original- Hakuin Ekaku made that koan. I
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

shanyin
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by shanyin » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Are you saying that the entire koan is, "What is the sound of one hand?" Or are you saying it's "what is the sound of one hand clapping?".?

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Meido
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by Meido » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:16 pm

No clapping.
It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice

Korinji Rinzai Zen Monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺] - http://www.korinji.org

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Astus
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by Astus » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:27 pm

shanyin wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:08 am
I'd like to know what it is. I want to do this koan because I want something to think about especially during meditation.
This looks like a common version: 両掌相打って音声あり、隻手に何の音声かある。 :twothumbsup:
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

shanyin
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by shanyin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:54 am

Meido wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:16 pm
No clapping.
??

shanyin
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by shanyin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:54 am

Astus wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:27 pm
shanyin wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:08 am
I'd like to know what it is. I want to do this koan because I want something to think about especially during meditation.
This looks like a common version: 両掌相打って音声あり、隻手に何の音声かある。 :twothumbsup:
I don't speak that language could you translate?

amanitamusc
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:20 am

Catching the clap off hand? :tongue:

shanyin
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by shanyin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:32 am

I'd like you all to explain what you are talking about.

amanitamusc
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:42 am

It is a koan.It is for you to catch it or not.

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Naawoo
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by Naawoo » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:42 am

This koan seems not so effective for western practitioners. It easily creates thoughts from rational judgement.
If it can be thought and answered in any logical ways, it is not considered an effective koan.

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Wayfarer
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:03 am

shanyin wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:32 am
I'd like you all to explain what you are talking about.
The 'one hand clapping' koan, in particular, has unfortunately become something of a cultural cliche. These kinds of ideas were introduced into Western culture in the mid-20th century in popular books and the like, and since that time have become emblematic of the 'mysterious East', used to convey the supposedly paradoxical nature of Zen. But since then Zen has come to mean all kinds of things - if you type 'Zen of...' into the Amazon Search bar, this is what you see:
Zen Of.....png
Zen Of.....png (30.36 KiB) Viewed 509 times
:shrug:


But the point is, koans such as ‘one hand clapping’ are not supposed to 'make sense'. They're not logical syllogisms or rational proofs. Koan practice is an element of specific Zen (and Ch'an) training, and are generally something which are given to students in the context of that training. The fact that they are communicated from teacher to student is key, as the teacher is the one who ascertains if the student really has an insight into the koan. That is the context in which such a koan is meaningful. But even the teacher's judgement is not formularised; there's no 'correct answer'. So, really, trying to explain 'what it's about' or 'what it means', misses the whole point; they are part of an entire context of practice and training, and to really start to understand them, requires studying Zen in depth.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Astus
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by Astus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:59 am

shanyin wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:54 am
could you translate?
"There is the sound of both palms hit together, but what is the sound of one hand?"
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

shanyin
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by shanyin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:51 pm

I am not certain why I am even asking but you have been great to me!!

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kirtu
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Re: One hand clapping

Post by kirtu » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:57 am

Astus wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:59 am
"There is the sound of both palms hit together, but what is the sound of one hand?"
Koans do not necessarily obviate a logical response although that would probably miss the point. They are intended to get dialog with a teacher going and to point to spiritual insight (which is indeed held by most to be beyond strictly linear reasoning). Here are some visuals not themselves intended as a response in an interview.
open hand palm up.jpg
open hand palm up.jpg (22.77 KiB) Viewed 343 times
one hand gassho.jpg
one hand gassho.jpg (238.4 KiB) Viewed 343 times
gassho.png
gassho.png (7.02 KiB) Viewed 343 times
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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