Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

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Grigoris
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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by Grigoris » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:35 pm

tatpurusa wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:19 pm
This is exactly my point. Ego and egolessness are both just dreams of samsara.
Good or bad? To whom? When? In which circumstances? Absolutely? :shock:
In your original post you ask which is more advantageous. To whom? When? In which circumstances? In absolute terms? :? :?

Both of them are illusions. Karmic dreams. None of them is at least a dream of clarity.

Or do you really dream that "real existing egolessness" is advantageous for the "real existing ego"?
Or that "real existing ego" is advantageous for the "real existing ego"?
Or a "relative existing ego" is advantageous for the "real existing ego"?
Or a "relative existing ego" is advantageous for a "relative existing ego"? Of course in absolute terms... :geek:

tp
Two truths: ultimate AND relative.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:38 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:27 am
Advantages of having an ego
- you feel proud and happy when you get something you want

- you are able to show off when you’re rich and gain a boost of joy and confidence

- you feel a sense of security

Disadvantages of having an ego
- You take things personally, so you are bound to be in suffering no matter what at times

- You will be sad and depressed when things don’t go your well

- Negative emotions and fear hold you captive

Advantages of egolessness
- You no longer take things personally and as such will be free of suffering when things don’t go your way

- You are more open to infinite possibilities

- negative emotions and fear won’t hold you captive no longer

Disadvantages of egolessness

- you don’t feel happy just because someone did something good for you ( eg. Throwing a surprise party )

- You are not affected by happy events

^ I may be wrong on this so correct me
————

What do you think? Ego or egoless? I still personally choose ego

I think you don't understand what "egolessness" stands in for in Dharma at all, and should study and practice more, conclude less.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by PeterC » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:21 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:44 pm
I do think ... But I’m questioning and evaualating why, so I don’t think ...
Perhaps you should try thinking a little less and seeking the answers from practice instead

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by Queequeg » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:56 pm

I think you need to investigate the real nature of the ego before you can conclude whether ego or egoless-ness is better. You're assuming ego is a substantial, essentially reducible thing. When you find it, let me know. Show me, and then I think I'll be able to go down this rabbit hole with you.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

WeiHan
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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by WeiHan » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:41 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:27 am

What do you think? Ego or egoless? I still personally choose ego
Be very careful when a group of people approach you in Dharma centres and kept pestering you to give up self-cherishing and to have bodhicitta etc... Almost definitely, they are trying to get you to donate money and alot later ...

Something to add..it is alright to admit that one is not yet up to the capacity to do certain practice but it is not necessary to twist the teachings to suit oneself. there is no such thing as choosing to keep one's ego or give it up..if it is so simple, we will not need Dharma practices. It comes with powerful experience and one can't help but give it up at some point after prolonged practice.

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by Grigoris » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:09 am

WeiHan wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:41 pm
Be very careful when a group of people approach you in Dharma centres and kept pestering you to give up self-cherishing and to have bodhicitta etc... Almost definitely, they are trying to get you to donate money and alot later ...
Generosity is the first Paramita. Of course it has to be combined with wisdom, but you should not be dissuading people from engaging in generosity. My experience has been that the more you give, the more you receive. And I ain't just talking about money!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by Bristollad » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:36 am

"Not feel happy when someone throws you a surprise party."

When someone throws you a surprise party, of course you feel happy! But...it's the difference between thinking,

They threw me a surprise party, they must really like me... I must be really special... of course I am really special... no one else is so deserving of this surprise party... because I am the most incredible person! Why is there only pizza, where are the crunchy nut burgers they know I like? And why are they playing that lame music, they should know I don't like it!

and

They threw me a surprise party, they are so kind and generous! How fantastic it is that they so generous. Wow there's even food and music, that's so great! They are such great friends! Party!

Even looking at this conventionally, which party feels like the one to be at? Which one are people going to remember happily?

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by WeiHan » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:04 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:09 am
WeiHan wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:41 pm
Be very careful when a group of people approach you in Dharma centres and kept pestering you to give up self-cherishing and to have bodhicitta etc... Almost definitely, they are trying to get you to donate money and alot later ...
Generosity is the first Paramita. Of course it has to be combined with wisdom, but you should not be dissuading people from engaging in generosity. My experience has been that the more you give, the more you receive. And I ain't just talking about money!
The people that kept asking didn't give anything themselves! And it is very poorly run, unaccountable even bordering cheating, inefficient spending possibly based on ego. For example, telling you there is a project to place 6 Guru Rinpoches statues in six part of the world...and really, who should be responsible for the lack of funding if the centres that they wanted to set up themselves because they don't want to practice in other more established centres failed to attract serious members?

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:54 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:56 pm
I think you need to investigate the real nature of the ego before you can conclude whether ego or egoless-ness is better. You're assuming ego is a substantial, essentially reducible thing. When you find it, let me know. Show me, and then I think I'll be able to go down this rabbit hole with you.
Maybe you also need to investigate the real nature of other beings, and if you can find them , let me know.

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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by Grigoris » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:44 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:04 pm
The people that kept asking didn't give anything themselves! And it is very poorly run, unaccountable even bordering cheating, inefficient spending possibly based on ego. For example, telling you there is a project to place 6 Guru Rinpoches statues in six part of the world...and really, who should be responsible for the lack of funding if the centres that they wanted to set up themselves because they don't want to practice in other more established centres failed to attract serious members?
I am sad to hear that your particular experience was so negative, it doesn't mean that all individuals and organisations looking for funds are blowing them on nonsense though. Caveat emptor.

Like I said: generosity has to be combined with wisdom.

And who cares what others are doing? You are responsible for your actions. You accumulate merit and wisdom for you, not for others. But do not dissuade others from gathering the two accumulations. Don't stunt other's in their attempt to develop.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Queequeg
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Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by Queequeg » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:25 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:54 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:56 pm
I think you need to investigate the real nature of the ego before you can conclude whether ego or egoless-ness is better. You're assuming ego is a substantial, essentially reducible thing. When you find it, let me know. Show me, and then I think I'll be able to go down this rabbit hole with you.
Maybe you also need to investigate the real nature of other beings, and if you can find them , let me know.
I'll do that. You, too.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

WeiHan
Posts: 538
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Advantage and disadvantage of ego and egolessness

Post by WeiHan » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:28 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:44 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:04 pm
The people that kept asking didn't give anything themselves! And it is very poorly run, unaccountable even bordering cheating, inefficient spending possibly based on ego. For example, telling you there is a project to place 6 Guru Rinpoches statues in six part of the world...and really, who should be responsible for the lack of funding if the centres that they wanted to set up themselves because they don't want to practice in other more established centres failed to attract serious members?
I am sad to hear that your particular experience was so negative, it doesn't mean that all individuals and organisations looking for funds are blowing them on nonsense though. Caveat emptor.

Like I said: generosity has to be combined with wisdom.

And who cares what others are doing? You are responsible for your actions. You accumulate merit and wisdom for you, not for others. But do not dissuade others from gathering the two accumulations. Don't stunt other's in their attempt to develop.
I am quite being specific saying is the group only. Under that influence, many unstable small centres sprung up. I am not against generosity but it can never be requesting in rude and unscrupulous manner whether it is for Dharma causes or not. i fully see that it maybe better for people to concentrate in a few centres than not getting along well with each other and all setting up their own centres with 3 members and even one member and then came out yelling that nobody want to support them..So what is the use pulling out their gurus' name? No member means no member, no money means no money.

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