Terminology of Three Natures

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Seeker12
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Terminology of Three Natures

Post by Seeker12 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:03 pm

The three natures as presented in the Mahayana are the parikalpita nature, the paratantra nature, and the pariniṣpanna nature.

Does anyone know or can any point to any resources on the actual breakdown of these terms? They are translated in various ways, such as Imaginary, Other-dependent & Perfect (Karl Brunnhölzl), Imagined, Other-dependent & Consummate (Jay L. Garfield), and Imputation, Dependence & the Absolute (Lama Chökyi Nyima) - I am interested in the sort of etymology of the terms.

For example, I'm guessing parikalpita has various parts such as pari and kalpita or whatever - what do the various parts mean?

Thanks. I hope it's clear enough.
Better than if there were thousands of meaningless words is one meaningful word that on hearing brings peace.

Better than if there were thousands of meaningless verses is one meaningful verse that on hearing brings peace.

And better than chanting hundreds of meaningless verses is one Dhamma-saying that on hearing brings peace.

Malcolm
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Re: Terminology of Three Natures

Post by Malcolm » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:43 pm

Seeker12 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:03 pm
The three natures as presented in the Mahayana are the parikalpita nature, the paratantra nature, and the pariniṣpanna nature.

Does anyone know or can any point to any resources on the actual breakdown of these terms? They are translated in various ways, such as Imaginary, Other-dependent & Perfect (Karl Brunnhölzl), Imagined, Other-dependent & Consummate (Jay L. Garfield), and Imputation, Dependence & the Absolute (Lama Chökyi Nyima) - I am interested in the sort of etymology of the terms.

For example, I'm guessing parikalpita has various parts such as pari and kalpita or whatever - what do the various parts mean?

Thanks. I hope it's clear enough.
Pari means totally, kalpita means imagined, conceptualized, etc.
Para means other; tantra means dependent.
niṣpanna means "accomplished" or "perfected, as in completion stage, niṣpannakrama. Thus pariniṣpanna means "totally perfected"

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Seeker12
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Re: Terminology of Three Natures

Post by Seeker12 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:43 pm

Pari means totally, kalpita means imagined, conceptualized, etc.
Para means other; tantra means dependent.
niṣpanna means "accomplished" or "perfected, as in completion stage, niṣpannakrama. Thus pariniṣpanna means "totally perfected"
Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for. Other dependent, then, is simply referring to the 12 nidanas, correct? Connecting the term niṣpanna to the completion stages is very interesting.

No need to reply if other dependent indeed is simply referring to the 12 nidanas, as I'm fairly certain it is.
Better than if there were thousands of meaningless words is one meaningful word that on hearing brings peace.

Better than if there were thousands of meaningless verses is one meaningful verse that on hearing brings peace.

And better than chanting hundreds of meaningless verses is one Dhamma-saying that on hearing brings peace.

Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Terminology of Three Natures

Post by Malcolm » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:22 pm

Seeker12 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:01 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:43 pm

Pari means totally, kalpita means imagined, conceptualized, etc.
Para means other; tantra means dependent.
niṣpanna means "accomplished" or "perfected, as in completion stage, niṣpannakrama. Thus pariniṣpanna means "totally perfected"
Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for. Other dependent, then, is simply referring to the 12 nidanas, correct? Connecting the term niṣpanna to the completion stages is very interesting.

No need to reply if other dependent indeed is simply referring to the 12 nidanas, as I'm fairly certain it is.
Some interpretations understand it that way, but in reality it refers to the ālayavijñāna which carries the seeds which produce appearances as the imagined nature. When those seeds are eradicated, the dependent nature becomes the perfected nature. So, to ignorant sentient beings, the dependent nature appears in the form of the imagined nature; when the dependent nature is purified, it is the perfected nature. Literally speaking, the nonexistence of the imagined in the dependent is the perfected.

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Seeker12
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Re: Terminology of Three Natures

Post by Seeker12 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:14 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:22 pm

Some interpretations understand it that way, but in reality it refers to the ālayavijñāna which carries the seeds which produce appearances as the imagined nature. When those seeds are eradicated, the dependent nature becomes the perfected nature. So, to ignorant sentient beings, the dependent nature appears in the form of the imagined nature; when the dependent nature is purified, it is the perfected nature. Literally speaking, the nonexistence of the imagined in the dependent is the perfected.
Thank you. In general, isn't that basically the same thing?

Pardon clumsy language, but basically it seems that when ignorance (as the first of the 12 nidanas) is basically there, meaning rigpa is unrecognized, then dependent on this the appearance of samsara arises - this would be the seeds manifesting as the appearances perceived by ignorant sentient beings. However, when rigpa is realized and the first link is basically broken, then the appearances of samsara do not actually arise in the same manner - this would be basically the manner by which the seeds are 'eradicated', correct?

And so in terms of a gradual path, the sort of familiarization with rigpa would serve the function of eradicating these seeds, resulting in the realization of the perfected nature?

Jamgon Kongrul writes,

View, meditation, and conduct can be distinguished in a multitude of ways,
But when subsumed in regard to one's own mind
The view is full conviction in the natural state,
Meditation is integrating the view in one's own condition,
Conduct is any action flavored by the view and meditation:
The result is said to be the authentic condition.

So here, the view would be rigpa, the path would be basically this integration and related 'conduct', and the result would be the full realization of the perfected nature which is the same as Buddhahood, correct?

I apologize if this is clumsy. I'm not really a scholar.
Better than if there were thousands of meaningless words is one meaningful word that on hearing brings peace.

Better than if there were thousands of meaningless verses is one meaningful verse that on hearing brings peace.

And better than chanting hundreds of meaningless verses is one Dhamma-saying that on hearing brings peace.

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LastLegend
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Re: Terminology of Three Natures

Post by LastLegend » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:15 pm

Seeker,

The Buddha worlds arise from clean consciousness while the sentient beings arise from unclean consciousness.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.

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