Shamatha as a toy vipashyana

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Viach
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Shamatha as a toy vipashyana

Post by Viach »

Shamatha is a toy vipashyana. As children, playing with dolls take them for real ones, so we in shamatha practice take a part of reality (the object of concentration, for example, generation stage) for pukka reality. The same applies to playing cubs of animals. Playing shamatha (for example, generation stage), we develop useful skills (flexibility and obedience of the mind), which then we will apply in vipashyana practice (i.e., stay in suchness) (completion stage). When certain skills are worked out ( fine motor skill , etc.), this toy (game) becomes not interesting and the child (cub) moves on to the next toy. Each time, discarding another toy, he/she still has new skills. This is the benefit of toys (games) (shamatha). But the trouble is if you are a big-age child, and you continue to play toys (gambling): the same danger is inherent in shamatha (jam in the dhyana).
Thus, a game as a universal way of development (adaptation to reality) is also used in meditation.
Nyingjetsal
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Re: Shamatha as a toy vipashyana

Post by Nyingjetsal »

Not sure I understood your post correctly, but if I did it seems as if you are separating vipassana and shamatha, and then equating shamatha with generation stage and vipassana with completion stage?

When it comes to the relationship between Shamatha and Vipassana, there are different traditions, but all agree that one needs both - its just a matter of which on one emphasize most in the start. For example Shantideva in his Way of the Bodhisattva first emphasize shamatha, which then together with vipassana erradicates afflicted states, see chapter 8. In the nature of mind teachings one emphasize stablizing vipassana, which means training to rest without distraction, which is the aspect of shamatha. The two go together. Chögyam Trungpa says: "shamatha practice is essential... The only possibility is to begin at the beginning, and the one and only way to do so is through shamatha discipline" [Pp 44 in the path of individual liberation].

There are many different shamatha methods, with and without object, and in the context of tibetan buddhism and pre-vajrayana one sometimes trains in visualizing a seed syllable as a shamatha with object preparation for generation stage. However, its a big mistake to equate visualizing a syllable to development stage...
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hermitseb
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Re: Shamatha as a toy vipashyana

Post by hermitseb »

Shamatha is, according to my teachers, the first part of a multi-part practice, the second part being Insight Meditation. These together come down to the same process as the Vipassana practice, which comes down to the same process as various other kinds of meditation, and the only difference is in the technique.. As there are countless limitless sentient beings, there are countless limitless techniques for the same result, they seem to say all the time in the sutras and texts hehe

This is my own interpretation, my conceptual understanding in brief: it comes down to first turning inward to Emptiness (or however you wish to call that state), and then turning outward to open awareness meditation, and then the stages beyond. Turning off the Light, then turning it on again and examining it, and it's relation to the previous state..

:thinking:
Nyingjetsal
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Re: Shamatha as a toy vipashyana

Post by Nyingjetsal »

hermitseb wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:11 am it comes down to first turning inward to Emptiness (or however you wish to call that state), and then turning outward to open awareness meditation, and then the stages beyond. Turning off the Light, then turning it on again and examining it, and it's relation to the previous state..
:thinking:
hmmm... thats not really correct.
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hermitseb
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Re: Shamatha as a toy vipashyana

Post by hermitseb »

Nyingjetsal wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:35 pm
hermitseb wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:11 am it comes down to first turning inward to Emptiness (or however you wish to call that state), and then turning outward to open awareness meditation, and then the stages beyond. Turning off the Light, then turning it on again and examining it, and it's relation to the previous state..
:thinking:
hmmm... thats not really correct.
No conceptual model can be correct. That's the whole idea and the great difficulty! The only way to "know" is to sit and actually do it. No amount of book learning, sutra repetition, learnings, etc can give us the truth, as Ananda, upon the passing of the Buddha, realized.

Thus why I said my conceptual interpretation heh. I fully accept that it also is incorrect.

:cheers:
Nyingjetsal
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Re: Shamatha as a toy vipashyana

Post by Nyingjetsal »

Also a conceptual description can be more or less accurate.

There is no need to turn inward or outward for emptiness. Awareness-emptiness is already what we are, but because our perception is unrefined we percieve things as over there and over here, things appears as solid. Sometimes the word clarity is also translated as light, I think its important not to understand that too literally.

When through devotion the teachers blessings touch us, we will gradually purify our perception and naturally see more clearly what is meant by emptiness. We all have that potential and therefore we need to make aspirations that we meet with the right circumstances.
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