Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by Virgo » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:44 pm

Viach wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:38 am
What happens in terms of the law of karma when we confront our deserved bad karma? Do we worsen our karma even more in this case?
  For example, someone is trying to rob us. He was robbed by us in forgiving lives. And it seems that we should put up with a fair (from the point of view of the law of karma) robbery. It turns out, confronting the robber, I do not allow my bad karma to be exhausted. Is it good?
The best thing we can do is apply a method to purify the karma beforehand. We should also try to attain the supreme and common siddhis.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:40 am

tkp67 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:51 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:25 am
If you approach from sunyata then why would you try to negotiate anything? You would dissolve your body into light and go right to a pure land when he stabbed you and the joke would be on him! Then he'd accumulate the karma of his connection with sending you to the pure land and his liberation would be assured.
Where do I start? According to my tradition I can find many reasons but I will leave it at why would I condemn someone to commit a heinous act as a means for their own enlightenment?

I should assume manifest destiny?

An what about faith in the transcendental powers of buddha? Why would I doubt that person's potential to realize Buddha in that moment without having to condemn them to that act?

Why would I deny them the loving kindness, compassion or even bliss? I am not here to judge, condemn or reside quietly in nirvana as a means to pass time til I my existence ceases. I shouldn't be attached to self in this situation, not to justice, not to right or wrong but to the condition that would drive them to do such a thing. Knowing this condition is due to lack of realization why would I dent them buddha's good medicine?

Why should I consider my debts to all the buddha's paid?

Ever moment is a moment of victory when the buddha nature is realized in any sentient being, there are many beings and much work to do. Every moment of life I am here in this saha world is a gift because liberation would mean nothing without suffering and life to be experience it and liberation.

Is liberation meant to be a means of escaping the reality of suffering so we can simply die disconnected from life thereafter? Or is it good medicine as a means to bring harmony to life on earth by dispelling the delusion of samsara and revealing nirvana as a state of mind to be enjoyed in life and celebrated while living. This state emanating so potently that it becomes part of the continuum of Buddha nature that the works to free sentient beings in the saha world from samsara. Living realization is critical in manifesting the buddha nature in us all.
What are you actually talking about? Do these words mean anything to someone trying to kill you? Why not show them all that instead of talk about it -if you can actually rest in shunyata?

How would dissolving into a light body be denying them the Dharma? In this case liberation means having had the seed for total realization in future lifetimes planted. Meaning, if you can plant the seed of liberation in the assailant's mind, that is the best way to deal with the situation. How you do it depends on your realization. You already claimed you would rest in emptiness - boy wouldn't that be nice? Anyway if you just say om mani padme hum or any other essence mantra like amitabha or something then it will accomplish this.
Last edited by TrimePema on Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:41 am

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:45 pm
Viach wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:38 am
What happens in terms of the law of karma when we confront our deserved bad karma? Do we worsen our karma even more in this case?
  For example, someone is trying to rob us. He was robbed by us in forgiving lives. And it seems that we should put up with a fair (from the point of view of the law of karma) robbery. It turns out, confronting the robber, I do not allow my bad karma to be exhausted. Is it good?
Good or bad, samara perpetuates.
Also neutral.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by tkp67 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:02 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:40 am
What are you actually talking about? Do these words mean anything to someone trying to kill you? Why not show them all that instead of talk about it -if you can actually rest in shunyata?

How would dissolving into a light body be denying them the Dharma? In this case liberation means having had the seed for total realization in future lifetimes planted. Meaning, if you can plant the seed of liberation in the assailant's mind, that is the best way to deal with the situation. How you do it depends on your realization. You already claimed you would rest in emptiness - boy wouldn't that be nice? Anyway if you just say om mani padme hum or any other essence mantra like amitabha or something then it will accomplish this.
My mind already resides in emptiness. That was the point about manifest destiny. Even in this made up scenario of a robber with no mention of knife it warped in the mind to evolve to something like getting stabbed to death. The point is that to project what could be isn't born of emptiness. It is projection of self, a projection of fear.

Empty conscious is not projecting self onto the motives of others, yet you ran to places in your mind because my claim of emptiness. Is it from emptiness that this impediment of the mind that tries to make dharma proprietary?

I practice Nichiren Buddhism. I am a votary of the Lotus Sutra. I am seated in the treasure tower with Shakyamuni. I understand these teachings as they where meant to be understand and I manifest them in the way they where meant to be manifest.

The perceptual conflict born of your own application of dharma and the comparison of my practice for which you are unfamiliar and trying to ascertain the value there of by comparison it isn't born of my emptiness and it doesn't deny it either.

It is projection of self along with everyone else who has no basis for contention other than lack of understanding but gives rise to it none the less. How can minds that aren't sure what words mean be so sure they come from attachment to self?

To distill an understanding in this situation isn't empty. To lack compassion isn't either. To get frustrated isn't either.

FWIW I spent most of my life dealing with people walking the evil paths and seeping in the poisons. If I had to sacrifice my life to save theirs I would have died a child. I learned to survive not by walking the evil paths but by evoking the consciousness beyond those realms that exists in the minds of the good and evil alike.

I have manifested the good from others when they lacked the capacity to do so themselves including those who would and have taken life without understanding the meaning. I've done what I suggest as this scenario suggests.

One person in particular who just called me a few days ago. He salvaged his life after being a violent felon and at one time dedicated gang member. He calls me his buddha because I saved his life, helped him actualize a family and a life of virtue without condemning him to his own devices. I didn't put those words in his mouth, I just saw him through his own mind out of depth of great compassion. I did this during the most unpredictable and tumultuous period of his life without any protection but faith in the human condition. Was there risk to my own well being? sure. Did his liberation mean more? absolutely.

I have plenty of examples just like this because it is how I have lived my life, helping others realize their own buddha nature without condemnation to the poison drum relationship and without concern for the outcome of my own life since I have been realized in a way that will never be taken away. Death notwithstanding.

When it is time to sacrifice this living vessel for the sake of another's enlightenment it will happen as I have lived my life accordingly without projection of what would come of it driven by pure compassion to evoke equanimity. The outcome has never been in my control yet here I am so apparently even the minds of those on the evil paths are reachable so to doubt the capacity of others isn't empty or compassionate but a projection of doubt.

That is what my reality has revealed. What says yours?

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:58 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:02 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:40 am
What are you actually talking about? Do these words mean anything to someone trying to kill you? Why not show them all that instead of talk about it -if you can actually rest in shunyata?

How would dissolving into a light body be denying them the Dharma? In this case liberation means having had the seed for total realization in future lifetimes planted. Meaning, if you can plant the seed of liberation in the assailant's mind, that is the best way to deal with the situation. How you do it depends on your realization. You already claimed you would rest in emptiness - boy wouldn't that be nice? Anyway if you just say om mani padme hum or any other essence mantra like amitabha or something then it will accomplish this.
My mind already resides in emptiness. That was the point about manifest destiny.
Image

Sorry. I couldn't resist. In English, "manifest destiny" refers to the "destiny" of the Americas to become one people, one government, one state, ruled from America.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by tkp67 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:12 pm

Please bring as much levity as required/desired. :smile:

I often say my love in my mind before I formulate a statement to keep focus that the recipient could be my child.

I know there seems to be a razor fine line between theist compassion and buddhist compassion which paints the flavor of the word but compassion when deployed as a means of liberation of suffering is always just that. The flavoring comes from our minds. My mind has a very large spice cabinet, seems to grow with time too.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:07 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:02 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:40 am
What are you actually talking about? Do these words mean anything to someone trying to kill you? Why not show them all that instead of talk about it -if you can actually rest in shunyata?

How would dissolving into a light body be denying them the Dharma? In this case liberation means having had the seed for total realization in future lifetimes planted. Meaning, if you can plant the seed of liberation in the assailant's mind, that is the best way to deal with the situation. How you do it depends on your realization. You already claimed you would rest in emptiness - boy wouldn't that be nice? Anyway if you just say om mani padme hum or any other essence mantra like amitabha or something then it will accomplish this.
My mind already resides in emptiness. That was the point about manifest destiny. Even in this made up scenario of a robber with no mention of knife it warped in the mind to evolve to something like getting stabbed to death. The point is that to project what could be isn't born of emptiness. It is projection of self, a projection of fear.

Empty conscious is not projecting self onto the motives of others, yet you ran to places in your mind because my claim of emptiness. Is it from emptiness that this impediment of the mind that tries to make dharma proprietary?

I practice Nichiren Buddhism. I am a votary of the Lotus Sutra. I am seated in the treasure tower with Shakyamuni. I understand these teachings as they where meant to be understand and I manifest them in the way they where meant to be manifest.

The perceptual conflict born of your own application of dharma and the comparison of my practice for which you are unfamiliar and trying to ascertain the value there of by comparison it isn't born of my emptiness and it doesn't deny it either.

It is projection of self along with everyone else who has no basis for contention other than lack of understanding but gives rise to it none the less. How can minds that aren't sure what words mean be so sure they come from attachment to self?

To distill an understanding in this situation isn't empty. To lack compassion isn't either. To get frustrated isn't either.

FWIW I spent most of my life dealing with people walking the evil paths and seeping in the poisons. If I had to sacrifice my life to save theirs I would have died a child. I learned to survive not by walking the evil paths but by evoking the consciousness beyond those realms that exists in the minds of the good and evil alike.

I have manifested the good from others when they lacked the capacity to do so themselves including those who would and have taken life without understanding the meaning. I've done what I suggest as this scenario suggests.

One person in particular who just called me a few days ago. He salvaged his life after being a violent felon and at one time dedicated gang member. He calls me his buddha because I saved his life, helped him actualize a family and a life of virtue without condemning him to his own devices. I didn't put those words in his mouth, I just saw him through his own mind out of depth of great compassion. I did this during the most unpredictable and tumultuous period of his life without any protection but faith in the human condition. Was there risk to my own well being? sure. Did his liberation mean more? absolutely.

I have plenty of examples just like this because it is how I have lived my life, helping others realize their own buddha nature without condemnation to the poison drum relationship and without concern for the outcome of my own life since I have been realized in a way that will never be taken away. Death notwithstanding.

When it is time to sacrifice this living vessel for the sake of another's enlightenment it will happen as I have lived my life accordingly without projection of what would come of it driven by pure compassion to evoke equanimity. The outcome has never been in my control yet here I am so apparently even the minds of those on the evil paths are reachable so to doubt the capacity of others isn't empty or compassionate but a projection of doubt.

That is what my reality has revealed. What says yours?
I doubt you have realized emptiness. Are you a great bodhisattva?
Last edited by TrimePema on Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by 明安 Myoan » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:11 pm

In case someone is so inclined:

There are also several mantras which need only to be seen to bring benefit, so putting one of these somewhere in your house is an easy way to form a connection between a robber and the Dharma, to help them in a future life :smile:

You can also rely on Namgyälma and her mantra. The article includes a high-res image of her mantra which can be printed and framed. This is said to help anyone who sees, touches, enters, etc. your house.

And "om mani peme hung" is similarly worthwhile for blessing, protection, purifying negativity, and so on.

Regarding the OP, like others have said, I would try to do my practice and keep a mind of benefit, or at least a mind fixed on the next essential step after this life ends: birth in Amitabha's Pure Land.

These things aren't only for peaceful or quiet times. In fact, being in difficulty and seeing what happens when I practice has become an essential part of developing faith.

:namaste:
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:23 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:07 pm
tkp67 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:02 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:40 am
What are you actually talking about? Do these words mean anything to someone trying to kill you? Why not show them all that instead of talk about it -if you can actually rest in shunyata?

How would dissolving into a light body be denying them the Dharma? In this case liberation means having had the seed for total realization in future lifetimes planted. Meaning, if you can plant the seed of liberation in the assailant's mind, that is the best way to deal with the situation. How you do it depends on your realization. You already claimed you would rest in emptiness - boy wouldn't that be nice? Anyway if you just say om mani padme hum or any other essence mantra like amitabha or something then it will accomplish this.
My mind already resides in emptiness.

[skipping quite a bit here]

That is what my reality has revealed. What says yours?
I doubt you have realized emptiness. Are you a great bodhisattva?
I also don't necessarily always understand what tkp67 is saying, but making "my mind already resides in emptiness" and similar statements doesn't have to mean you are claiming great attainment. For instance, my mind resides in emptiness and your mind resides in emptiness too; it doesn't mean we've realized emptiness or are claiming to have when we make this truthful statement.

IMO
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:27 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:51 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:25 am
If you approach from sunyata then why would you try to negotiate anything? You would dissolve your body into light and go right to a pure land when he stabbed you and the joke would be on him! Then he'd accumulate the karma of his connection with sending you to the pure land and his liberation would be assured.
Where do I start? According to my tradition I can find many reasons but I will leave it at why would I condemn someone to commit a heinous act as a means for their own enlightenment?

You have a huge misconception.

YOU said you abide in shunyata.

If YOU abide in shunyata, YOU have the ability to take the negative karma of others and transform it into merit.

One way you can do this is by offering your body to them in order to establish the proper connections and so on. For instance, there are many stories of bodhisattvas realizing the only way they could help certain animals is by emanating as their prey, to be eaten, and then in future lives when that predator becomes a human, to emanate as a teacher to lead that human to enlightenment.

Another way you can do it is by generating faith in the person. If they try to stab you, let them kill you and then dissolve into a light body and go to Sukhavati while reciting Amitabha's name to them.

Of course, if you havent realized emptiness then you can just say a mantra and let them take whatever they need or kill you or whatever negative thing they are doing - let them do it, it's not your karma and it is not necessarily goign to be beneficial for you to try to stop them.

Best is if you help them make a connection to the Dharma that will liberate them in the future. Unless you can see the future, best to rely on the teachings and use mantras and such to help them. Otherwise you might be doing something that seems good but is actually negative or causes subtle obstacles.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:28 pm

Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:23 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:07 pm
tkp67 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:02 pm

My mind already resides in emptiness.

[skipping quite a bit here]

That is what my reality has revealed. What says yours?
I doubt you have realized emptiness. Are you a great bodhisattva?
I also don't necessarily always understand what tkp67 is saying, but making "my mind already resides in emptiness" and similar statements doesn't have to mean you are claiming great attainment. For instance, my mind resides in emptiness and your mind resides in emptiness too; it doesn't mean we've realized emptiness or are claiming to have when we make this truthful statement.

IMO
The mind is not in anything.

Yes, actually. Only an 8th level bodhisattva has removed the subtle attachments that prevent the mind from "residing in" emptiness.

He claimed to be abiding in shunyata. I said if you have realized shunyata, which is the only way that would be possible (lets forget the gross linguistic failures of "abiding in" for brevity) is if he was an 8th level bodhisattva.

I found it funny and contradictory he was saying such a thing while also giving such a longwinded description of all the ways he can use conceptual terminology to "explain" to someone who is robbing him some Buddhist cosmological view so that they can be liberated.

If he has attainment, then he doesnt need to do any of that type of stuff, he just needs to connect them to his mindstream and lead them to enlightenment in the future.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by tkp67 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:06 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:39 pm
:juggling:

Good to know you are an 8th stage bodhisattva!

I gave you an example to illustrate something to you. The powers of a mind that has realization doesn't need to just walk around arguing the Dharma to people.

Your reality has only revealed that you think of yourself very highly, in my opinion.

When you get attached to these ideas of emptiness and what is and isnt emptiness and what is and isnt liberating phenomena and how great you are and so on, you only create demonic obstacles for yourself and others.
I understand the concept of being engaged is not residing in emptiness and I never declared to be anything but a Bodhisattva of the earth who has realized the treasure tower as an ordinary human. The point is no realization meaningful to the liberation of mankind ever has resided outside of the mind of an ordinary human. Our own empty pure equitable empty conscious is the source of all realization and our own minds choose what to see and reveal. To say that emptiness of self, equability, purity and boundlessness cannot be discriminated while engaging denies the reality of any buddha that has taught any dharma or achieved enlightenment. It is already there waiting to be revealed. It would also be a basis to deny your argument but I will not since I understand the difference in point of view.

The manifestation of Buddha in the degenerate age is the realization that the dharma came from the human mind and so does liberation, not just in the golden promise of realization at the moment of death (am not doubting this as a fabric of enlightened extinction) but in every moment of life we experience. Nichiren still strongly reminds us of the importance of the moment of death but is is not the end game. Evoking the golden words of Buddha here and now through agency of the Daimoku is. The end game is realization in the moment we posses, not an inevitable moment we prepare for.

We sublimate empty pure boundless equability of mind of Shakyamuni every time we chant Daimoku because those properties are the essence of the sutra itself and Nichiren reduced the essence of the lotus sutra to Nam Myoho Renge Kyo in absolute perfection.

If you don't understand this you never studied and subsequently realized the teachings of Nichiren Daishōnin. He challenged much of the perceptions regarding the other traditions but I am not bringing that dog to this conversation. Just a discourse in cause and effect and how perception shapes the ability to understand it in a life situation. His argument was simply pragmatic from a point of pure emptiness however. If it is a product of the mind the treatise is also there, which is the understanding from the perspective of perfected buddha wisdom born from emptiness of self. If you don't understand the product of the mind intimately (in this case a dharma path) how can you expect to understand it from a perspective of perfected buddha wisdom?

Note the true basis of the argument, your claim that anything but turning golden is the right response to a violent death as a proof of my emptiness even in the proposition it isn't the only outcome that can lead to a better outcome. Topically that is the basis of the thread not my emptiness. The basis of my view on how the emptiness keeps me from projecting the outcome. This is very topical and appropriately Buddhist.

Even the killing if a failed delusional bodhisattva is a karmic tie that leads to enlightenment that doesn't deny their suffering in hell as a consequence. Every sentient being will there achieve buddhahood even if there isn't anything left but their because at some that ends and becomes empty too. This doesn't mean they enjoy the benefit of realization in life. Or the good practices that develop them or the life lived in the intern.

Trying to prevent that outcome for an outcome with less suffering is not less noble. It isn't less enlightened. Thinking the most meaningful realization is at the moment of death is to deny the purpose of buddha's realization of his own enlightenment in life, in human form and the process of sharing it with others while still alive.

The buddha's own realization wasn't at the time of physical death or we wouldn't know them. The fact that he did is why we do. To expect buddhahood to be void of that dynamic defies reality. The realized buddha conscious that transcends the imposed delusion of the mind does not deny life or exist outside of it. It brings relief from suffering.

The pure empty equable boundless consciousness that has given rise to all isn't realized into existence is actualized. This conscious serves as a foundation for life not as a replacement or a substitute for it but rather as a basis for a good life.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by Caoimhghín » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:11 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:28 pm
Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:23 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:07 pm
I doubt you have realized emptiness. Are you a great bodhisattva?
I also don't necessarily always understand what tkp67 is saying, but making "my mind already resides in emptiness" and similar statements doesn't have to mean you are claiming great attainment. For instance, my mind resides in emptiness and your mind resides in emptiness too; it doesn't mean we've realized emptiness or are claiming to have when we make this truthful statement.

IMO
The mind is not in anything.
Ultimately, of course, there is nothing to be in, let alone a nirvāṇa or saṁsāra. However, we approach the ultimate through the lens of the "realm of the transactional(vyavahārasatya)", to use the language of Venerable Candrakirtī's as translated by Mervyn Sprung. With this in mind, we speak of the mind residing in all sorts of things in the sea of dharmas. All of these things are nothing but emptiness. So it becomes largely a language issue of whether or not you want to speak of the emptiness of the dharmas of saṁsāra as empty irrespective of your realization of them, the way I see it at least. There's no real disagreement.

There's no pressure to agree. I just don't think the post in question was an attainment claim. It didn't read that way to me. The word "in" does not have to be an indicator of location or locativity. It also has the sense of expressing a state or condition, such as "the mind in turmoil" or "the mind is in turmoil" or even "the mind in nirvāṇa."

Turmoil is emptiness. The mind is in turmoil. The mind is in emptiness. None of those statements require attainment to agree with.
歸命本覺心法身常住妙法心蓮臺本來莊嚴三身徳三十七尊住心
城遠離因果法然具普門塵數諸三昧無邊徳海本圓滿還我頂禮心諸佛

In reverence for the root gnosis of the heart, the dharmakāya,
for the ever present good law of the heart, the lotus terrace,
for the inborn adornment of the trikāya, the thirty-seven sages dwelling in the heart,
for that which is removed from seed and fruit, the upright key to the universal gate,
for all boundless concentrations, the sea of virtue, the root perfection,
I prostrate, bowing to the hearts of all Buddhas.

胎藏金剛菩提心義略問答鈔, Treatise on the teaching of the gnostic heart of the womb and the diamond, T2397.1.470c5-8

tkp67
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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by tkp67 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:22 pm

Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:23 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:07 pm
tkp67 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:02 pm

My mind already resides in emptiness.

[skipping quite a bit here]

That is what my reality has revealed. What says yours?
I doubt you have realized emptiness. Are you a great bodhisattva?
I also don't necessarily always understand what tkp67 is saying, but making "my mind already resides in emptiness" and similar statements doesn't have to mean you are claiming great attainment. For instance, my mind resides in emptiness and your mind resides in emptiness too; it doesn't mean we've realized emptiness or are claiming to have when we make this truthful statement.

IMO
Yes and more so attainment ins't permanent as it is only attainment in life, outside of life it is pure consciousness there is nothing to attain. The value of life is inherent in all beings except humans as it is obfuscated by the defilement of our own minds. To abide in just mind during life is not the middle way. To seek attainment for self and others it manifests into the greatest attainment that one can know in life.

The daimoku give the mind glimpses so a nichiren practitioner will engage life and practice enlightenment in an economy of movement because in the degenerate age other practices are virtually unattainable because of practicability. It turns all phenomenon in the mind of those who hear it into inverse or direct cause. It does this subliminally. Its efficiency is remarkable. It removes the defilement that keep us from abiding in the middle road of self as embodied by our physical form and the seat of consciousness that is empty(non self), pure, boundless and equatable.

We use the one to remove the other in the process of every moment experienced.

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明安 Myoan
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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by 明安 Myoan » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:07 pm

Tkp, are you describing samadhi from chanting? Might be worth its own thread, as I see that as one of the wonderful commonalities across traditions :reading:

I think when someone remembers to practice during a nightmare, or under any kind of duress, then this is seeking refuge in the Three Jewels. The Buddha said in the Pali Canon that if you think of the Buddha or the Three Jewels, you will not go to states of woe.
Can someone find the suttas? :smile:
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-Amida-Butsu. -- Ippen

The Fundamental Vow [of Amitabha Buddha] is just for such people as woodcutters and grassgatherers, vegetable pickers, drawers of water and the like, illiterate folk who merely recite the Buddha's name wholeheartedly, confident that as a result of saying "Namu Amida Butsu" they will be born into the western land. -- Master Hōnen

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:18 pm

tkp67 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:22 pm
Caoimhghín wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:23 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:07 pm
I doubt you have realized emptiness. Are you a great bodhisattva?
I also don't necessarily always understand what tkp67 is saying, but making "my mind already resides in emptiness" and similar statements doesn't have to mean you are claiming great attainment. For instance, my mind resides in emptiness and your mind resides in emptiness too; it doesn't mean we've realized emptiness or are claiming to have when we make this truthful statement.

IMO
Yes and more so attainment ins't permanent as it is only attainment in life, outside of life it is pure consciousness there is nothing to attain. The value of life is inherent in all beings except humans as it is obfuscated by the defilement of our own minds. To abide in just mind during life is not the middle way. To seek attainment for self and others it manifests into the greatest attainment that one can know in life.

The daimoku give the mind glimpses so a nichiren practitioner will engage life and practice enlightenment in an economy of movement because in the degenerate age other practices are virtually unattainable because of practicability. It turns all phenomenon in the mind of those who hear it into inverse or direct cause. It does this subliminally. Its efficiency is remarkable. It removes the defilement that keep us from abiding in the middle road of self as embodied by our physical form and the seat of consciousness that is empty(non self), pure, boundless and equatable.

We use the one to remove the other in the process of every moment experienced.
(Edited: quoted the wrong post - this above I have nothing to say about - seems correct to me! But the one before that by tkp about Buddhas being human is the one I meant to quote and my response is below)

No.

A Buddha is by definition not a human being. Enlightenment is not discovered by humans it only requires a human body
When a sentient being becomes a Buddha they are no longer a sentient being. A sentient being has the phenomena of ignorance and is subject to karmic laws. A Buddha is not.

Knowing the theory of emptiness and knowing directly are two different things.
Knowing theory you are an aspiring bodhisattva and knowing directly you cross to the first bhumi.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by tkp67 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:29 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:18 pm
(Edited: quoted the wrong post - this above I have nothing to say about - seems correct to me! But the one before that by tkp about Buddhas being human is the one I meant to quote and my response is below)

No.

A Buddha is by definition not a human being. Enlightenment is not discovered by humans it only requires a human body
When a sentient being becomes a Buddha they are no longer a sentient being. A sentient being has the phenomena of ignorance and is subject to karmic laws. A Buddha is not.

Knowing the theory of emptiness and knowing directly are two different things.
Knowing theory you are an aspiring bodhisattva and knowing directly you cross to the first bhumi.
My dearest trimepema don't you understand

if you view the lotus juxtapose your own teachings you evoke a paradox relationship where you are certain of MY teachings

my love, no matter how hard you try your belief does not equate to the reality of my teaching let alone my realizations

my dear, the fact that I made no equation to emptiness and buddhahood here but elsewhere on the site is also proof that the claim is yours first. It has driven you subconsciously the whole time as I made it clear it wasn't topical aka on topic it is an in violation of the terms and agreements

Now my dear, my deepest love, my fellow sentient being who is pure underneath all rise of the mind, I tell you this straight from the heart and mind, you evoke no doubt in my mind or separation in Buddha when you do this, only yourself.

The ultimate perspective of all dharma is the lotus and thus is the mind of buddha, all the other teachings are various dharma that lead to the mind of buddha.

They are not compatible in direct comparison, Nichiren was clear about this and the reason the comparative teachings exist is to reveal it because realization is that encompassing. This is why nichiren had to make it a tantric transmission through mandala and daimoku. Proof of practice is reality revealed by this practice. It is direct transmission from the mind of buddha not the interpretative transmission to lead the minds to buddha.

If I didn't practice the realization of equanimity and oneness as a foundation through intense suffering I would not have been able to know the sutra in this lifetime. To begrudge my enlightenment is to begrudge the release of suffering. To question it without knowing it from the perspective is delusion and denial of a the path I took before knowing it.

https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/67
Buddha [仏] (, Pali;  hotoke or butsu): One enlightened to the eternal and ultimate truth that is the reality of all things, and who leads others to attain the same enlightenment. In India, the word buddha was originally a common noun meaning awakened one or enlightened one, referring to those who attained any kind of religious awakening. In Buddhism, it refers to one who has become awakened to the ultimate truth of all phenomena. In this context, the term Buddha at first was applied exclusively to Shakyamuni. Later, however, with the development of Buddha as an ideal, numerous Buddhas appeared in Mahayana scriptures. These include such Buddhas as Amida and Medicine Master. Expressions such as “the Buddhas of the ten directions” and “the Buddhas of the three existences” communicate the idea that Buddhas, or the potential for enlightenment they represent, are omnipresent. The state of perfect enlightenment sought in Buddhism is called Buddhahood.
Various definitions of Buddha are set forth in Buddhist teachings. In Hinayana teachings, it means one who has entered the state of nirvana, in which both body and mind are extinguished. Mahayana teachings generally maintain that one becomes a Buddha only after innumerable kalpas of austere and meritorious practices, by eradicating illusions and earthly desires and acquiring the thirty-two features of a Buddha. The Lotus Sutra views Buddha as one who manifests the three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent, who is enlightened to the true aspect of all phenomena, and who teaches it to people to save them from suffering. The Buddhism of Nichiren, which is based on the Lotus Sutra and regards it as Shakyamuni’s most profound teaching, recognizes the potential of every person to become a Buddha.

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Re: Is it worth it to resist your well-deserved bad karma?

Post by Miroku » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:34 pm

Okay, and I am locking this thread as I feel there is a need for discussion between the mods.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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