Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

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Artziebetter1
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Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by Artziebetter1 »

[Mod note: The question refers to this old thread:] https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=280

How can Buddhas even act or interact without any type of awareness at all?
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Astus
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by Astus »

Artziebetter1 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:40 amHow can Buddhas even act or interact without any type of awareness at all?
The problem begins at one's ideas about what buddhahood and what awareness means. Those are already complicated topics. One option is to go by the Yogacara explanation of the eight consciousnesses transformed to the four wisdoms. Another option is to take buddhahood as the nature of the mind. Further options are also available, depending on one's need for more conceptualisation or its minimisation.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
tkp67
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by tkp67 »

if consciousness is impermanent then how is that reconciled to rebirth?
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by Grigoris »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:28 am if consciousness is impermanent then how is that reconciled to rebirth?
Because it is a continuously changing stream that does not stop at death.

Change is the hallmark of impermanence.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
tkp67
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by tkp67 »

Grigoris wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:51 am
tkp67 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:28 am if consciousness is impermanent then how is that reconciled to rebirth?
Because it is a continuously changing stream that does not stop at death.

Change is the hallmark of impermanence.
TY for the clarification. Due to some fault of my own I interpreted it in this context to mean the stream itself simply was a temporal thing.
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Grigoris
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by Grigoris »

tkp67 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:10 amTY for the clarification. Due to some fault of my own I interpreted it in this context to mean the stream itself simply was a temporal thing.
Hold onto your horses there buddy.

I will quote Heraclitus on this one: “No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.”
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Crazywisdom
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by Crazywisdom »

consciousness is dependent on objects, et vice versa, ergo since objects are impermanent so are the sense consciousnesses.
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LastLegend
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by LastLegend »

Astus wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:44 am
Artziebetter1 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:40 amHow can Buddhas even act or interact without any type of awareness at all?
The problem begins at one's ideas about what buddhahood and what awareness means. Those are already complicated topics. One option is to go by the Yogacara explanation of the eight consciousnesses transformed to the four wisdoms. Another option is to take buddhahood as the nature of the mind. Further options are also available, depending on one's need for more conceptualisation or its minimisation.
Let’s flesh out today what is nature of mind? Using one’s own experience to describe it.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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Astus
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by Astus »

LastLegend wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:22 pmLet’s flesh out today what is nature of mind? Using one’s own experience to describe it.
But first: what do you call mind?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
tkp67
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by tkp67 »

Grigoris wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:33 am
tkp67 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:10 amTY for the clarification. Due to some fault of my own I interpreted it in this context to mean the stream itself simply was a temporal thing.
Hold onto your horses there buddy.

I will quote Heraclitus on this one: “No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.”
understood
The truth of non-substantiality means that phenomena have no existence of their own; their true nature is non-substantial, indefinable in terms of existence or nonexistence. The truth of temporary existence means that, although non-substantial, all things possess a temporary reality that is in constant flux. The truth of the Middle Way means that the true nature of phenomena is that they are neither non-substantial nor temporary, though they display attributes of both. The Middle Way is the essence of things that continues either in a manifest or a latent state.
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Re: Why is consciousness seen as something impermanent? (2)

Post by LastLegend »

Astus wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:40 pm
LastLegend wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:22 pmLet’s flesh out today what is nature of mind? Using one’s own experience to describe it.
But first: what do you call mind?
Nice question. I don’t know.

The body of mind is not limited to just thoughts because thoughts cannot know itself. There is consciousness which it’s not agreed upon what it is and was never explained clearly. Here I reject consciousness as awareness it’s not clear either. Then there is intention.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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