Oops

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Rick
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Oops

Post by Rick »

I fell for it, took emptiness as a view, failed to get that emptiness too is empty.

It's understandable ... we non-enlighteneds need something to hold onto ... and, after all, Mahayana talks endlessly of the right view.

But still, what a grand irony, enshrining that which un-enshrines everything, including itself!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Minobu
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Re: Oops

Post by Minobu »

Rick wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:07 pm I fell for it, took emptiness as a view, failed to get that emptiness too is empty.

It's understandable ... we non-enlighteneds need something to hold onto ... and, after all, Mahayana talks endlessly of the right view.

But still, what a grand irony, enshrining that which un-enshrines everything, including itself!
from nichirenlibrary of the soka gakki
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47
The mystic principle that is the essential nature of phenomena possesses two aspects, the defiled aspect and the pure aspect. If the defiled aspect is operative, this is called delusion. If the pure aspect is operative, this is called enlightenment. Enlightenment constitutes the realm of Buddhahood. Delusion constitutes the realms of ordinary mortals.
These two aspects, the deluded and the enlightened, are indeed two different phenomena, and yet both are workings of the one principle, that is, the essential nature of phenomena, or the true aspect of reality
i too have many a oops moment..

but this cleared up a lot for me..

the essential nature of phenomena is MyoHo RenGe . yes it has the aspect of being empty but at the same time it is not another name for Sunyata , it's about something else. The true aspect of all phenomenon is empty , and it can manifest both the pure and the defiled , and yet it is neither.

here this might help both quotes are those of Nichiren Shonin.
The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is like this. The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is one, but if it encounters evil influences, it will manifest delusion, while p.418if it encounters good influences, it will manifest enlightenment. Enlightenment means enlightenment to the essential nature of phenomena, and delusion, ignorance of it.
the entire gosho teaches us about the entity of the Mystic Law , or in other words Myo Ho Ren Ge . As a layman learning about this stuff, i think Myo Ho Ren Ge is the source of all phenomenon ..if there is such a thing...
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LastLegend
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Re: Oops

Post by LastLegend »

Rick wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:07 pm I fell for it, took emptiness as a view, failed to get that emptiness too is empty.

It's understandable ... we non-enlighteneds need something to hold onto ... and, after all, Mahayana talks endlessly of the right view.

But still, what a grand irony, enshrining that which un-enshrines everything, including itself!
Ya think? Mind is a terrible thing whatever you intent will manifest. I just learned that.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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LastLegend
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Re: Oops

Post by LastLegend »

Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:59 pm
Rick wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:07 pm I fell for it, took emptiness as a view, failed to get that emptiness too is empty.

It's understandable ... we non-enlighteneds need something to hold onto ... and, after all, Mahayana talks endlessly of the right view.

But still, what a grand irony, enshrining that which un-enshrines everything, including itself!
from nichirenlibrary of the soka gakki
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47
The mystic principle that is the essential nature of phenomena possesses two aspects, the defiled aspect and the pure aspect. If the defiled aspect is operative, this is called delusion. If the pure aspect is operative, this is called enlightenment. Enlightenment constitutes the realm of Buddhahood. Delusion constitutes the realms of ordinary mortals.
These two aspects, the deluded and the enlightened, are indeed two different phenomena, and yet both are workings of the one principle, that is, the essential nature of phenomena, or the true aspect of reality
i too have many a oops moment..

but this cleared up a lot for me..

the essential nature of phenomena is MyoHo RenGe . yes it has the aspect of being empty but at the same time it is not another name for Sunyata , it's about something else. The true aspect of all phenomenon is empty , and it can manifest both the pure and the defiled , and yet it is neither.

here this might help both quotes are those of Nichiren Shonin.
The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is like this. The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is one, but if it encounters evil influences, it will manifest delusion, while p.418if it encounters good influences, it will manifest enlightenment. Enlightenment means enlightenment to the essential nature of phenomena, and delusion, ignorance of it.
the entire gosho teaches us about the entity of the Mystic Law , or in other words Myo Ho Ren Ge . As a layman learning about this stuff, i think Myo Ho Ren Ge is the source of all phenomenon ..if there is such a thing...
Excited about Mystic Law? I guess you have opened yourself to it.

I am not ready personally.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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Minobu
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Re: Oops

Post by Minobu »

LastLegend wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:29 pm
Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:59 pm
Rick wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:07 pm I fell for it, took emptiness as a view, failed to get that emptiness too is empty.

It's understandable ... we non-enlighteneds need something to hold onto ... and, after all, Mahayana talks endlessly of the right view.

But still, what a grand irony, enshrining that which un-enshrines everything, including itself!
from nichirenlibrary of the soka gakki
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47
The mystic principle that is the essential nature of phenomena possesses two aspects, the defiled aspect and the pure aspect. If the defiled aspect is operative, this is called delusion. If the pure aspect is operative, this is called enlightenment. Enlightenment constitutes the realm of Buddhahood. Delusion constitutes the realms of ordinary mortals.
These two aspects, the deluded and the enlightened, are indeed two different phenomena, and yet both are workings of the one principle, that is, the essential nature of phenomena, or the true aspect of reality
i too have many a oops moment..

but this cleared up a lot for me..

the essential nature of phenomena is MyoHo RenGe . yes it has the aspect of being empty but at the same time it is not another name for Sunyata , it's about something else. The true aspect of all phenomenon is empty , and it can manifest both the pure and the defiled , and yet it is neither.

here this might help both quotes are those of Nichiren Shonin.
The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is like this. The mystic principle of the true aspect of reality is one, but if it encounters evil influences, it will manifest delusion, while p.418if it encounters good influences, it will manifest enlightenment. Enlightenment means enlightenment to the essential nature of phenomena, and delusion, ignorance of it.
the entire gosho teaches us about the entity of the Mystic Law , or in other words Myo Ho Ren Ge . As a layman learning about this stuff, i think Myo Ho Ren Ge is the source of all phenomenon ..if there is such a thing...
Excited about Mystic Law? I guess you have opened yourself to it.

I am not ready personally.
this line of understanding is all new to me...
if it wasn't for Malcolm and all my wrestling with him i would never have been able to see it this way...

read the gosho via the link...so cool...the thesis of Buddhist thought ..

i think people confuse Original Enlightenment with it actually being Sunyata ...when sunyata is something to help one understand the nature of all phenomenon as well as Original Enlightenment. Both the pure and the impure manifest from Original Enlightenment as delusion or enlightenment .

not that they are part of it like it has a pure part and an impure part...it just manifests both...

as for the emptiness of emptiness ... try the emptiness of empty emptiness. lol...it's just what ever you come up with in your mind view it is co arising and codependent .

but hey i could be off...i'm working on it...and as you see Minobu has no puffed up pride...i embarrass myself here constantly... it's my journey.
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LastLegend
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Re: Oops

Post by LastLegend »

Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:59 pm
LastLegend wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:29 pm
Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:59 pm

from nichirenlibrary of the soka gakki
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47



i too have many a oops moment..

but this cleared up a lot for me..

the essential nature of phenomena is MyoHo RenGe . yes it has the aspect of being empty but at the same time it is not another name for Sunyata , it's about something else. The true aspect of all phenomenon is empty , and it can manifest both the pure and the defiled , and yet it is neither.

here this might help both quotes are those of Nichiren Shonin.


the entire gosho teaches us about the entity of the Mystic Law , or in other words Myo Ho Ren Ge . As a layman learning about this stuff, i think Myo Ho Ren Ge is the source of all phenomenon ..if there is such a thing...
Excited about Mystic Law? I guess you have opened yourself to it.

I am not ready personally.
this line of understanding is all new to me...
if it wasn't for Malcolm and all my wrestling with him i would never have been able to see it this way...

read the gosho via the link...so cool...the thesis of Buddhist thought ..

i think people confuse Original Enlightenment with it actually being Sunyata ...when sunyata is something to help one understand the nature of all phenomenon as well as Original Enlightenment. Both the pure and the impure manifest from Original Enlightenment as delusion or enlightenment .

not that they are part of it like it has a pure part and an impure part...it just manifests both...

as for the emptiness of emptiness ... try the emptiness of empty emptiness. lol...it's just what ever you come up with in your mind view it is co arising and codependent .

but hey i could be off...i'm working on it...and as you see Minobu has no puffed up pride...i embarrass myself here constantly... it's my journey.
There is a path where you place your entire faith in Buddhas and there is no looking back. No path is easy. Not only no pride and all personal intention is given up. This could mean a vacation to samsara. This we resonate.

As far as Sunyata being introductory just as most Sutras there is a few that talk about Buddhas’ wisdom in Bodhisattva activity in purifying and liberating sentient beings. Leading them to great samadhi of emptiness or the unborn Wisdom of emptiness which is the default Mahaprajna.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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Matt J
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Re: Oops

Post by Matt J »

It's ok, Svatantrikas and Gelugpas do this all the time.

Oops, did I say Gelugpas? :jumping: Just kidding. Sort of. :rolling:
Rick wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:07 pm I fell for it, took emptiness as a view, failed to get that emptiness too is empty.

It's understandable ... we non-enlighteneds need something to hold onto ... and, after all, Mahayana talks endlessly of the right view.

But still, what a grand irony, enshrining that which un-enshrines everything, including itself!
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche
tkp67
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Re: Oops

Post by tkp67 »

Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:59 pm
LastLegend wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:29 pm
Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:59 pm

from nichirenlibrary of the soka gakki
https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47



i too have many a oops moment..

but this cleared up a lot for me..

the essential nature of phenomena is MyoHo RenGe . yes it has the aspect of being empty but at the same time it is not another name for Sunyata , it's about something else. The true aspect of all phenomenon is empty , and it can manifest both the pure and the defiled , and yet it is neither.

here this might help both quotes are those of Nichiren Shonin.


the entire gosho teaches us about the entity of the Mystic Law , or in other words Myo Ho Ren Ge . As a layman learning about this stuff, i think Myo Ho Ren Ge is the source of all phenomenon ..if there is such a thing...
Excited about Mystic Law? I guess you have opened yourself to it.

I am not ready personally.
this line of understanding is all new to me...
if it wasn't for Malcolm and all my wrestling with him i would never have been able to see it this way...

read the gosho via the link...so cool...the thesis of Buddhist thought ..

i think people confuse Original Enlightenment with it actually being Sunyata ...when sunyata is something to help one understand the nature of all phenomenon as well as Original Enlightenment. Both the pure and the impure manifest from Original Enlightenment as delusion or enlightenment .

not that they are part of it like it has a pure part and an impure part...it just manifests both...

as for the emptiness of emptiness ... try the emptiness of empty emptiness. lol...it's just what ever you come up with in your mind view it is co arising and codependent .

but hey i could be off...i'm working on it...and as you see Minobu has no puffed up pride...i embarrass myself here constantly... it's my journey.
Both Shakyamuni and Nichiren cast aside the provisional to reveal the truth both in their own enlightenment and in their teachings. It would seem going through the same process is part of a potent practice.

:anjali:
provisional teachings [権教] ( gon-kyō):T’ien-t’ai (538–597) states in Great Concentration and Insight, “‘Provisional’ means a temporary expedient, which is to be employed temporarily and then discarded. ‘True’ means a true teaching; it is the ultimate goal to be reached.” From the viewpoint of T’ien-t’ai’s classification of the Buddha’s teachings into five periods, the provisional teachings correspond to the teachings of the first four periods—the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods—and the true teaching, to the Lotus Sutra.
casting off the transient and revealing the true [発迹顕本] ( hosshaku-kempon): The revealing of a Buddha’s true status as a Buddha, and the setting aside of that Buddha’s provisional or transient identity.
To put it in another way, he cast off his transient status as an ordinary, unenlightened person burdened with karma and suffering and, while remaining an ordinary human being, revealed his original, true identity as a Buddha possessing infinite wisdom and compassion (the Buddha of limitless joy). In identifying Nichiren as the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law, Nichikan also referred to a passage from Nichiren’s Reply to Kyō’ō that reads, “I, Nichiren, have inscribed my life in sumi ink, so believe in the Gohonzon with your whole heart. The Buddha’s will is the Lotus Sutra, but the soul of Nichiren is nothing other than Nam-myoho-renge-kyo” (412).
tkp67
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Re: Oops

Post by tkp67 »

I very recently had a very deep revelation about my anger undermining my practice. I told my teacher and he seemed encouraged that the medicine is still working.

Some roots run deep.
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Minobu
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Re: Oops

Post by Minobu »

LastLegend wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:03 pm

There is a path where you place your entire faith in Buddhas and there is no looking back. No path is easy. Not only no pride and all personal intention is given up.
Sweet Lucidity for me when i pay attention to the Dharma so,, thank you . In Lotus Buddhism The Dharma , The Sutra Itself is Dharma is Buddha is Myo Ho Ren Ge ...
This could mean a vacation to samsara. This we resonate.
.
I don't get where you are going or what this means.
But in the latter day of the law their are these myriads of Bodhisattvas who take up the whole Bodhisattva thing...


As far as Sunyata being introductory just as most Sutras there is a few that talk about Buddhas’ wisdom in Bodhisattva activity in purifying and liberating sentient beings. Leading them to great samadhi of emptiness or the unborn Wisdom of emptiness which is the default Mahaprajna
I don't get that either . just saying...it's me ..

There are all kinds of words pointing to the same thing ...But before words it existed ,

so words only stain , unless the words are upaya and reality at the same time , in order to become fundamental , in sentients .
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LastLegend
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Re: Oops

Post by LastLegend »

Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:32 pm I don't get where you are going or what this means.
But in the latter day of the law their are these myriads of Bodhisattvas who take up the whole Bodhisattva thing...
My teacher gave Chinese analogy: before a carp turns into a dragon, it has to swim up to leap the waterfalls. It’s arduous journey of suffering. Everything we know that ties us to samsara are stripping away in purifying process. That’s where suffering comes from. That’s what I was taught for this particular path.
According to tradition, a carp that could swim upstream and then leap the falls of the Yellow River at Dragon Gate (Longmen), would be transformed into a dragon: this motif symbolizes success in the civil service examinations (Eberhard, 1983:57-58).
Wiki.
I don't get that either . just saying...it's me ..

There are all kinds of words pointing to the same thing ...But before words it existed ,

so words only stain , unless the words are upaya and reality at the same time , in order to become fundamental , in sentients .
Mahaprajna is being covered by skandhas and enlightened nature itself.
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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Minobu
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Re: Oops

Post by Minobu »

LastLegend wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:20 pm
Minobu wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:32 pm I don't get where you are going or what this means.
But in the latter day of the law their are these myriads of Bodhisattvas who take up the whole Bodhisattva thing...
My teacher gave Chinese analogy: before a carp turns into a dragon, it has to swim up to leap the waterfalls. It’s arduous journey of suffering. Everything we know that ties us to samsara are stripping away in purifying process. That’s where suffering comes from. That’s what I was taught for this particular path.
According to tradition, a carp that could swim upstream and then leap the falls of the Yellow River at Dragon Gate (Longmen), would be transformed into a dragon: this motif symbolizes success in the civil service examinations (Eberhard, 1983:57-58).
Wiki.
I don't get that either . just saying...it's me ..

There are all kinds of words pointing to the same thing ...But before words it existed ,

so words only stain , unless the words are upaya and reality at the same time , in order to become fundamental , in sentients .
Mahaprajna is being covered by skandhas and enlightened nature itself.
I love you

as for
this motif symbolizes success in the civil service examinations (Eberhard, 1983:57-58)
i recommend the book how to steal friends and con people. Dale Carnegie , a saint .

but then you have
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LastLegend
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Re: Oops

Post by LastLegend »

:lol:
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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LastLegend
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Re: Oops

Post by LastLegend »

That’s between you and Buddhas when you sincerely ask them to bring you to enlightenment has nothing to do with me. You might be making a deal with the devils and only regret later. When you are in terrible suffering you call them, definitely not me because I don’t know how to purify or bring you to enlightenment. I can send good thoughts once in a while when my mind is good and that’s it. You don’t seek me, and I don’t seek you. You don’t blame me.

Of course here and now is good. But if you don’t see on this forum :D, that means I am rich. Probably have successfully conned some people.

How about that for Minobu humor?
Make personal vows.

End of the day: I don’t know.
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