Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

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PeterC
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by PeterC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:33 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:29 am
She sounds very sincere. Beautiful voice. Sounds like she is authentic to me.
Based on a very large sample of untrustworthy characters, I personally find that how convincing someone sounds is an extremely unreliable criteria on which to judge them - I find actions and demonstrable facts more reliable. That to me is a red flag for this person, before you even get into the theological questions. Where is the corroborating evidence of who she was before she met this lama? Who did she receive recognition from as an emanation of an African deity? Who did she study with, what did she do? Where does she get her information on her great-great-grandmother from, and how reliable is that? Her website is extremely light on any description of this, but makes a huge deal of her recognition by a Tibetan lama.

I'm sure you see my point and I'm probably boring people at this stage, so won't post further on this one.

PeterC
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by PeterC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:37 am

tingdzin wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:33 am
PeterC wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:20 am
But among the 'sneering denouncers' you will find people who are pointing out what sutra and tantra actually *says* on this, and what historical precedent is.
WEll, I thought I made it clear that I myself don't give much credence to the whole business, and Malcolm's objections, for example, do not have much feel of sneering contempt in them, but are based in simple expressions of what the scriptures say. It's the condescending tone of some of the sneerers, rather than the content of their disagreements, that might be taken issue to. Not a single one of my teachers in any Buddhist school has ever exhibited sarcastic contempt for questions or misunderstandings, however ignorant. People who reply sarcastically generally do so from a feeling of superiority, which is hardly part of the Mahayana path.
Where is the sarcasm or contempt in any of the discussion above? Everyone has been pretty straightforward about what they think.

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Sennin
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Sennin » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:40 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:33 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:29 am
She sounds very sincere. Beautiful voice. Sounds like she is authentic to me.
Based on a very large sample of untrustworthy characters, I personally find that how convincing someone sounds is an extremely unreliable criteria on which to judge them - I find actions and demonstrable facts more reliable. That to me is a red flag for this person, before you even get into the theological questions. Where is the corroborating evidence of who she was before she met this lama? Who did she receive recognition from as an emanation of an African deity? Who did she study with, what did she do? Where does she get her information on her great-great-grandmother from, and how reliable is that? Her website is extremely light on any description of this, but makes a huge deal of her recognition by a Tibetan lama.

I'm sure you see my point and I'm probably boring people at this stage, so won't post further on this one.
Very important questions and one reason I listened to her mp3 was to try and see which house of what lineage did she become crown Yeye of Oshun. Although admittedly there is a code of secrecy not to mention that with those who haven't been cut.
Namo Guru Bhyaḥ

tingdzin
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by tingdzin » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:44 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:37 am
Where is the sarcasm or contempt in any of the discussion above? Everyone has been pretty straightforward about what they think.
:D Sorry if I stepped on some toes. People can be Defenders of the Dharma if that's what floats their boat.

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:54 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:33 am
Based on a very large sample of untrustworthy characters, I personally find that how convincing someone sounds is an extremely unreliable criteria on which to judge them - I find actions and demonstrable facts more reliable.
So true....i've been bamboozled for 30 years by my partner...but i knew deep inside something was not right...but i didn't trust my intuition....even when my dreams were showing me what he was doing......i guess i didn't have confidence in myself...my intuitive self...my feminine intuition.....or whatever it is when you have dreams that come true (premonitions)

i guess we will eventually find out the truth about Yeye someday.......hopefully the world won't be destroyed by then....
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

PeterC
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by PeterC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:03 am

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:54 am
hopefully the world won't be destroyed by then....
Unfortunately that part of her ‘prophecy’ seems inescapable at this point, absent a global pandemic that eliminates about two-thirds of the worlds human population. But that’s a separate discussion.

Kaung
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Kaung » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am


:shrug: I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.

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cyril
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by cyril » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:26 am

Kaung wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am

:shrug: I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.
Oh, c'mon, they have Dorje Legba in Vajrayana and they have Papa Legba in Voodoo; can't you see the connection?
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

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Aryjna
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Aryjna » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:41 am

Kaung wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am

:shrug: I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.
I don't think I could regard someone posting this as being knowledgeable about anything, or possessing common sense.

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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Kaung » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:33 am

The lengths she went to make her sound ‘legit’ was just ridiculous.And it’s pretty clear that she regards Mamaki as some other ‘worldly’ goddess :toilet:

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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:38 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:44 pm

Indeed the Buddha gives teachings in three ways: directly with his own voice, by blessing, or by permission.
Thank you for your reply. I personally do not understand why oracles are necessary, especially if the majority of beings who speak through them are worldly beings. Why seek the advice of a worldly being? It is better to rely upon the Three Jewels and upon wisdom.

In the scriptures it says that Buddhas can appear in any form, as handicapped people, deluded beings or even insane beings if this benefits living beings. The actions of Buddhas are beyond our comprehension and they have countless emanations. Because Buddhas have countless emanations, this is one reason to prove that they can benefit all living beings without exception. We cannot know if someone is an emanation of Buddha unless we have high realisations ourself. This is to answer your point of why would Buddha appear as a mara - because they can, and it may be beneficial to others to appear in that way (to test a bodhisattva's wisdom, resolve, etc.)

PeterC
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by PeterC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:46 am

cyril wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:26 am
Kaung wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am
:shrug: I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.
Oh, c'mon, they have Dorje Legba in Vajrayana and they have Papa Legba in Voodoo; can't you see the connection?
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
Absolutely. And the connections go further: Sekhmet is clearly the same as Simhamukha, both are connected to Lions and start with the letter S. Thoth is connected with scribes, and he holds a staff that might from the right angle look a bit like a weapon, similar to a sword perhaps, so obviously he's Manjushri. Before we know it we will have discovered an entire Afro-Indo-Tibetan pantheon!

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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Kaung » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:51 am

PeterC wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:46 am
cyril wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:26 am
Kaung wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am
:shrug: I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.
Oh, c'mon, they have Dorje Legba in Vajrayana and they have Papa Legba in Voodoo; can't you see the connection?
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
Absolutely. And the connections go further: Sekhmet is clearly the same as Simhamukha, both are connected to Lions and start with the letter S. Thoth is connected with scribes, and he holds a staff that might from the right angle look a bit like a weapon, similar to a sword perhaps, so obviously he's Manjushri. Before we know it we will have discovered an entire Afro-Indo-Tibetan pantheon!



Lmao :rolling: :tongue:

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Malcolm
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Malcolm » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:40 pm

PeterC wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:46 am
cyril wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:26 am
Kaung wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am
:shrug: I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.
Oh, c'mon, they have Dorje Legba in Vajrayana and they have Papa Legba in Voodoo; can't you see the connection?
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
Absolutely. And the connections go further: Sekhmet is clearly the same as Simhamukha, both are connected to Lions and start with the letter S. Thoth is connected with scribes, and he holds a staff that might from the right angle look a bit like a weapon, similar to a sword perhaps, so obviously he's Manjushri. Before we know it we will have discovered an entire Afro-Indo-Tibetan pantheon!
New addition to Liber 777. More seriously, though, this kind of syncretism, (aka cultural appropriation) is to be expected. The Tibetans did it too, actually.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Malcolm » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:10 pm

Tsongkhapafan wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:38 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:44 pm

Indeed the Buddha gives teachings in three ways: directly with his own voice, by blessing, or by permission.
Thank you for your reply. I personally do not understand why oracles are necessary, especially if the majority of beings who speak through them are worldly beings. Why seek the advice of a worldly being? It is better to rely upon the Three Jewels and upon wisdom.
It is not merely a majority, all entities who speak through mediums are worldly beings. Buddhas have no need of depending on trance mediums.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:40 pm

You'd think this event would also be publicised in prominent Tibetan news papers, websites, etc. Also Indian news sources....

:shrug:

I haven't investigated that yet..but it would of popped up in other Google searches. ...
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

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conebeckham
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by conebeckham » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:59 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:40 pm
You'd think this event would also be publicised in prominent Tibetan news papers, websites, etc. Also Indian news sources....

:shrug:

I haven't investigated that yet..but it would of popped up in other Google searches. ...
Unless it's total and complete fabrication, in which case legit media would steer clear. :shrug:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Malcolm
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Malcolm » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:27 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:59 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:40 pm
You'd think this event would also be publicised in prominent Tibetan news papers, websites, etc. Also Indian news sources....

:shrug:

I haven't investigated that yet..but it would of popped up in other Google searches. ...
Unless it's total and complete fabrication, in which case legit media would steer clear. :shrug:
I doubt this is a fabrication, and frankly, I do not suspect the people involved of running a con. Their motivation seems sincere. They just know very little about the trance medium tradition in Tibet, they know almost nothing of Tibetan Buddhism in general, and they certainly do not understand the concept of worldly entities being emanations, or messengers, or servants, of awakened beings. So, with that in mind, we should be a little gentle with these people.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Sennin
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Sennin » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:11 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:09 pm
Sennin wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:49 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:44 pm
At first I thought maybe it's a good thing because she could introduce Vajrayana Buddhism to African Americans, but it looks to me like this is such a misrepresentation, it will do more harm than good.

I kindly want to know why you think it can be a good thing?
Exposure to Dharma is a good thing, especially for communities and people who have had none. Traditional A.A. culture is imbued heavily with Christianity. I want there to be Buddhist teachers and communities out there that reflect the cultures and people they connect to, but without corrupting or distorting the Dharma.
I can definitely see the benefit of more exposure to the Dharma in our (black folks) culture. The benefit of course being victory over self clinging and ultimately unsurpassed awakening.

There must certainly be transmission of the dharma in a bonafide and genuine way; in a way that can spring no doubt of authenticity.

To be honest when I first saw the article I was joyful to see this sister getting her recognition. Even so, it's clear that she has to learn the dharma in a genuine way in order to be a pure vessel of the Buddha dharma; and if I'm not mistaken that begins with refuge to the Triple Gem, not celestial entities.

Of course there's always room for growth.
Namo Guru Bhyaḥ

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Nechung Kuten Recognizes Yeye Omileye

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:25 pm

Kaung wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:51 am

:shrug: I wouldn't regard someone posting such a thing as being knowledgable in vajrayana.Now,I'm very convinced that she's just part of that new age family who wants to use vajrayana for their own ends.
That was painful to read.

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