Ngakpas everywhere!

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Grigoris
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Danny wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:33 pmYes, but was thinking of something more interesting than sitting in snow and having wet cloth on you.
There are so many uninformed opinions in this thread. :(

Practitioners have achieved realisation through tummo alone.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Lingpupa wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:10 am

4) the practitioner who has been authorized by way of appropriate empowerments etc. to practice appropriate sadhanas and who does in fact maintain their commitments, at least largely and with appropriate repair activity for the failings.
I've never seen it laid down, but who is authorised to give the Ngakpa empowerment?
Any Ngakpa or do they need a special lineage authorisation to give it?
Can monks give it?
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:45 pmI've never seen it laid down, but who is authorised to give the Ngakpa empowerment?
Any Ngakpa or do they need a special lineage authorisation to give it?
Can monks give it?
Didn't you receive the empowerment from LOTR?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Grigoris wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:59 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:45 pmI've never seen it laid down, but who is authorised to give the Ngakpa empowerment?
Any Ngakpa or do they need a special lineage authorisation to give it?
Can monks give it?
Didn't you receive the empowerment from LOTR?
Just the usual 14 plus a vow to keep the Ngakpa vows, but not the Throma Nagmo hair vow no.
He's Dudjom lineage authorised isn't he. But I mean in general, who is authorised?
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:03 pmJust the usual 14 plus a vow to keep the Ngakpa vows, but not the Throma Nagmo hair vow no.
He's Dudjom lineage authorised isn't he. But I mean in general, who is authorised?
He is a Loppon.

But, in general, I am unsure about who authorises somebody to give empowerments. Their Guru, I guess.

PS There is more to the Throma empowerments than just the hair vow. A lot more.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Grigoris wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:20 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:03 pmJust the usual 14 plus a vow to keep the Ngakpa vows, but not the Throma Nagmo hair vow no.
He's Dudjom lineage authorised isn't he. But I mean in general, who is authorised?
He is a Loppon.

But, in general, I am unsure about who authorises somebody to give empowerments. Their Guru, I guess.

PS There is more to the Throma empowerments than just the hair vow. A lot more.
Yes, I am aware of the Throma Nagmo - in fact Dudjom Rinpoche was due to give it in April in the UK just down the road from me before Coronavirus clobbered the trip.

Is being a Loppon enough or does a person need lineage permission to ordain people as Ngakpas?
I think somewhere I read that monastics can ordain Ngakpas, but again no idea which monastics or which Ngakpas can.
It's a simple question but I suspect the answer will be that lineages vary.
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:35 pm - in fact Dudjom Rinpoche was due to give it in April in the UK just down the road from me before Coronavirus clobbered the trip.
Damn!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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pemachophel wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:10 pm Yagmort,

In Jigme Lingpa's personal Guru yoga it says to visualize Him as:

གོས་དཀར་མཐོན་མཐིང་ཟུར་ཕུད་ལྡན་པའི་རྩེརཿ

gö kar tönting zurpü denpé tser

Dressed in white and dark-blue and with your hair in a top-knot,

My Teacher, the consummate ngakpa, Lama Dawa Chodrak, often wore white robe, white dranchu, and a dark blue shirt.
thank you for the input, Pema Chopel !
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:35 pmYes, I am aware of the Throma Nagmo - in fact Dudjom Rinpoche was due to give it in April in the UK just down the road from me before Coronavirus clobbered the trip.
A curio: the super-complete all-inclusive TN wangchen he gave in Valencia in 2019 did not include the hair thing.
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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treehuggingoctopus wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:54 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:35 pmYes, I am aware of the Throma Nagmo - in fact Dudjom Rinpoche was due to give it in April in the UK just down the road from me before Coronavirus clobbered the trip.
A curio: the super-complete all-inclusive TN wangchen he gave in Valencia in 2019 did not include the hair thing.
I'm not much fussed about the ordination, just curious. The one due for the UK would not have had it either, apparently - hundreds attending in a sports centre, which I would not enjoy.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:58 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:54 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:35 pmYes, I am aware of the Throma Nagmo - in fact Dudjom Rinpoche was due to give it in April in the UK just down the road from me before Coronavirus clobbered the trip.
A curio: the super-complete all-inclusive TN wangchen he gave in Valencia in 2019 did not include the hair thing.
I'm not much fussed about the ordination, just curious. The one due for the UK would not have had it either, apparently - hundreds attending in a sports centre, which I would not enjoy.
I guess so. I got the impression -- on the basis of his (translated, of course) comments -- that he does not consider the hair bit important at all. (He was really happy to see Western zendra-wearing ngakpas, though. Said so, at least.)
To offer care and affection to sentient beings
In desperate situations who lack protection
Brings just as much merit as the meditation
On emptiness with compassion as its core—
So it has been said by glorious Lord Atisha.

Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche

If you cannot generate an altruistic mind, even extensive retreat will be of not much benefit.
Garchen Triptrul Rinpoche
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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yagmort wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:53 pm
pemachophel wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:10 pm Yagmort,

In Jigme Lingpa's personal Guru yoga it says to visualize Him as:

གོས་དཀར་མཐོན་མཐིང་ཟུར་ཕུད་ལྡན་པའི་རྩེརཿ

gö kar tönting zurpü denpé tser

Dressed in white and dark-blue and with your hair in a top-knot,

My Teacher, the consummate ngakpa, Lama Dawa Chodrak, often wore white robe, white dranchu, and a dark blue shirt.
thank you for the input, Pema Chopel !
Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche says we can wear a red, white or blue shirt depending on our practice.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Grigoris wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:16 pm
yagmort wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:53 pm
pemachophel wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:10 pm Yagmort,

In Jigme Lingpa's personal Guru yoga it says to visualize Him as:

གོས་དཀར་མཐོན་མཐིང་ཟུར་ཕུད་ལྡན་པའི་རྩེརཿ

gö kar tönting zurpü denpé tser

Dressed in white and dark-blue and with your hair in a top-knot,

My Teacher, the consummate ngakpa, Lama Dawa Chodrak, often wore white robe, white dranchu, and a dark blue shirt.
thank you for the input, Pema Chopel !
Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche says we can wear a red, white or blue shirt depending on our practice.
How are the colours related to practice?
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Könchok Thrinley wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:38 pmHow are the colours related to practice?
Peaceful and wrathful.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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treehuggingoctopus wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:14 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:58 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:54 pm

A curio: the super-complete all-inclusive TN wangchen he gave in Valencia in 2019 did not include the hair thing.
I'm not much fussed about the ordination, just curious. The one due for the UK would not have had it either, apparently - hundreds attending in a sports centre, which I would not enjoy.
I guess so. I got the impression -- on the basis of his (translated, of course) comments -- that he does not consider the hair bit important at all. (He was really happy to see Western zendra-wearing ngakpas, though. Said so, at least.)
Well, if anyone can change the format, he can. He may have assumed most folk would have asked for exemption anyway. I wouldn't need to, being retired and having very little hair left! lol :)
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Grigoris wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:20 pm
Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:03 pmJust the usual 14 plus a vow to keep the Ngakpa vows, but not the Throma Nagmo hair vow no.
He's Dudjom lineage authorised isn't he. But I mean in general, who is authorised?
He is a Loppon.

But, in general, I am unsure about who authorises somebody to give empowerments. Their Guru, I guess.

PS There is more to the Throma empowerments than just the hair vow. A lot more.
You know, the whole idea that someone needs to authorize people to give empowerments / teachings is a little strange. I think part of the reason why it so prevalent in the West is bc TB has been transmitted here via big institutions. Big institutions are into authorization, levels, titles, etc.

Looking at the available English translations of the traditional texts that list the qualifications of a teacher, I have never actually found "authorization" as a qualification.

That isn't to say that someone's teacher telling them to teach is meaningless; it obviously isn't. I just think people put too much emphasis on it.

It is a way of passing off our responsibility to examine teachers ourselves. Also, we are big time into authorizations of all sizes and shapes in all contexts in the West.
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Charlie123 wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:35 pmYou know, the whole idea that someone needs to authorize people to give empowerments / teachings is a little strange. I think part of the reason why it so prevalent in the West is bc TB has been transmitted here via big institutions. Big institutions are into authorization, levels, titles, etc.

Looking at the available English translations of the traditional texts that list the qualifications of a teacher, I have never actually found "authorization" as a qualification.

That isn't to say that someone's teacher telling them to teach is meaningless; it obviously isn't. I just think people put too much emphasis on it.

It is a way of passing off our responsibility to examine teachers ourselves. Also, we are big time into authorizations of all sizes and shapes in all contexts in the West.
And this kiddies, is exactly how cults start.

Ever heard of this thing called lineage? Do you know why it is important?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Grigoris wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:22 am
The goal of a ngakpa/ngakma practice is to achieve mantra siddhi. The vows are the framework within which it is achieved.

The goal of a monastic is enlightenment. The vows are the framework within which it is achieved.

Are we going to discuss seriously or are you just going to keep making statements established on your baseless aversion and ignorance of ngakpa/ngakma?
An interesting interview in that context, and re. dress and the LARP context.
https://www.shambhala.com/snowlion_arti ... -rinpoche/

''Simply, ngakpas do what they do not only for the present moment’s well-being but also for future enlightenment.''

''Tibetans don’t try to look like ngakpas. That is the difference: If you really follow those samayas you are a great practitioner and nobody can see it from the outside. On the other hand those who cannot follow anything but wear the clothes, it is nothing but costumes and emblems that they hold. Everything goes the opposite way if you really cannot hold the samayas.''
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Thanks manrik that is a great resource. :twothumbsup:
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.
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Grigoris
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Re: Ngakpas everywhere!

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Mantrik wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:51 pmAn interesting interview in that context, and re. dress and the LARP context.
https://www.shambhala.com/snowlion_arti ... -rinpoche/

''Simply, ngakpas do what they do not only for the present moment’s well-being but also for future enlightenment.''

''Tibetans don’t try to look like ngakpas. That is the difference: If you really follow those samayas you are a great practitioner and nobody can see it from the outside. On the other hand those who cannot follow anything but wear the clothes, it is nothing but costumes and emblems that they hold. Everything goes the opposite way if you really cannot hold the samayas.''
Cherry picking aside and ignoring the fact that you cannot read minds and know why somebody wears the robes or not, I will repeat something that I have said a number of times and that everybody here (in their rush to judge) ignores completely:

THE WEARING OF THE ACCOUTERMENTS IS PART OF THE PRACTICE'S SAMAYA.

Which part of that F u c king statement do not people not understand???
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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