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Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:53 am
by Alfredo
Simon E.:
To deny his huge influence for good would be just as dishonest. Even a casual reading of the views of those teachers who held and still hold him in the highest regard is a role call of some of the most renowned teachers of the day.
One of his students said at his funeral that he had never known anyone who did so much good and so much harm. Both.
I readily admit that he is famous and influential. But in what way can he be said to have done "so much good"?

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:26 am
by heart
Alfredo wrote:Simon E.:
To deny his huge influence for good would be just as dishonest. Even a casual reading of the views of those teachers who held and still hold him in the highest regard is a role call of some of the most renowned teachers of the day.
One of his students said at his funeral that he had never known anyone who did so much good and so much harm. Both.
I readily admit that he is famous and influential. But in what way can he be said to have done "so much good"?
Have you read "Cutting through Spiritual Materialism"? It will give you a clear idea. Also many of his old students, like Simon, continue to benefit others with their understanding of the essence of Dharma.

/magnus

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:34 pm
by Alfredo
Whether he, or his students, have benefited anybody through their interpretation of the "essence" of dharma is impossible to determine with any objectivity. Anybody might attract students who make similar praises. (What is Scientology? is thought by some to be the cat's meow.)

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:45 pm
by heart
Alfredo wrote:Whether he, or his students, have benefited anybody through their interpretation of the "essence" of dharma is impossible to determine with any objectivity. Anybody might attract students who make similar praises. (What is Scientology? is thought by some to be the cat's meow.)
I am just saying there are quite a few people around with a mature relationship to Dharma, some of them are old Trungpa students. This maturity is exactly the opposite of the attitude of people following a cult or passionately defending their own particular teacher and taste of Dharma.

/magnus

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:55 pm
by Malcolm
Alfredo wrote:
I readily admit that he is famous and influential. But in what way can he be said to have done "so much good"?
Hmmm, well, CTR's books have introduced literally millions of people to Buddhadharma for one...

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:21 pm
by Alfredo
The same could be said of Mme Blavatsky.

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:28 pm
by heart
Alfredo wrote:The same could be said of Mme Blavatsky.
Are you serious? That isn't Dharma.

/magnus

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:54 pm
by Alfredo
Oh, a lot of dubious things get called "dharma." Like Trungpa, Blavatsky introduced Tibetan Buddhism (or something kind of like it) to a whole generation. Surely this is reason to rejoice...? :thinking:

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:18 pm
by Malcolm
Alfredo wrote:The same could be said of Mme Blavatsky.
The influence of the Theosophical Society on the early history of Buddhism in the West is indisputable, despite her many misconceptions about Tibetan Buddhism in particular.

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:20 pm
by Malcolm
Alfredo wrote:Trungpa

Frankly, you are flogging a dead horse. You aren't one of those one issue posters, are you? I hope to see more from you than "sexual misconduct", "Trungpa", "ethics", etc.

Otherwise, I am afraid I will find you quite boring.

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:53 pm
by Silent Bob
Alfredo wrote:Oh, a lot of dubious things get called "dharma." Like Trungpa, Blavatsky introduced Tibetan Buddhism (or something kind of like it) to a whole generation. Surely this is reason to rejoice...? :thinking:
And here is a prime example of why I rarely even visit Dharma Wheel any more.

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:21 pm
by dzogchungpa
michaelb wrote:What reports? This report?
http://behindthethangkas.wordpress.com/ ... -thangkas/
OK, I just finished reading it. Is that material basically accurate, in your opinion?

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:38 pm
by heart
Alfredo wrote:Oh, a lot of dubious things get called "dharma." Like Trungpa, Blavatsky introduced Tibetan Buddhism (or something kind of like it) to a whole generation. Surely this is reason to rejoice...? :thinking:
Comparing Trungpa and Blavatsky is ridiculous. So who is your own lama Alfredo?

/magnus

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:11 pm
by T. Chokyi
Seems I made a double post so erased one. :smile:

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:26 pm
by T. Chokyi
Simon E. wrote:
I wasn't referring to Malcolms post. Macolm was pointing to the futility of such missions. YOU posted the specific allegations. and by so doing tarred 'Ivo' with the same brush.

Your knowledge of 'guilt ' by association is lacking to the point of naivety.
Why not relax? We just disagree, and thats fine. I just don't think most people on this board will jump to the kind of conclusion you are mentioning, it would not surprise me if some did, but perhaps you think everybody will, and further that I am naive for posting the links and thinking that they won't, and you say so, no offence taken, but I give people here more credit for making intelligent and informed decisions, either way, jumping to conclusions or not, the information should be out there. I don't think people on the board will get carried away and make an association that Ivo is exploiting his students sexually. However if individuals think its "guilt by association" because of a couple of links then that is their superficial judgement call.[/quote][/quote]

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:33 pm
by Simon E.
Really ? I think the whole thread is posited on jumping to conclusions.

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:42 pm
by Pero
Well, I for one didn't take it as having anything to do with Ivo, just clarifying the mention in Malcolm's post. Was surprised anyone thought otherwise. :shrug:

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:12 pm
by michaelb
dzogchungpa wrote:
michaelb wrote:What reports? This report?
http://behindthethangkas.wordpress.com/ ... -thangkas/
OK, I just finished reading it. Is that material basically accurate, in your opinion?
I've no idea. I just wondered if this was the only 'report' on Sogyal Rinpoche or other ones were being referred to. I've only seen Sogyal Rinpoche teach once, at an event with HH Dalai Lama, and am not interested in repeating the experience. Even though there seem to be many similar stories of his behaviour I've no interest whether they are accurate or not. I also have no opinion on Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche as I know I will never meet him or be able to take teachings from him. But, from the report on Sogyal Rinpoche, it seems one of the effects of Trungpa Rinpoche's actions was to inspire other lamas to attempt to act in the same way.

I just found a rebuttal of the blog by a Rigpa student:
http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/20 ... he-thanka/

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:16 am
by heart
The cat caught your tongue Alfredo?

/magnus

Re: Lama Ivo Kalushev of Bulgaria

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:10 pm
by Silent Bob
heart wrote:The cat caught your tongue Alfredo?

/magnus
Jeez, Magnus, don't encourage him!