Connection of Guru Rinpoche and Marpa the Translator

[kajibabu]

Dear Dharma brothers and sisters,

I am just wondering what is the connection between Guru Rinpoche and Marpa the translator? So far I know, Guru Rinpoche is crucial in bringing Buddha Dharma in Tibet and he is recognized as next Buddha after Buddha Shakyamuni. On the other side, the great Dharma Practictioner Marpa Lotsawa is also crucial in bringing and spreading Buddha Dharma in Tibet after his tireless and risky journeys to India at that time. But in many of Buddhist literature I did not find the connection that Marpa and his lineage is mentioning Guru Rinpoche in their practices and literature. So far I understand, Nyingma trandition is believed after Guru PadmaSambhava while Kagyu tradition is after Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, Milarepa and Gampopa. Would you please clarify about this? Thanks
Babu

[Berry]

Hi kajibabu,

Guru Rinpoche is very important in the Kagyu school.

Here's the Seven Line Supplication to Guru Rinpoche from the 17th Karmapa:

http://kagyuoffice.org/the-seven-line-s ... -rinpoche/

Best wishes,

Berry

PS I think this thread should be in the Tibetan section

.

[kajibabu]

Hi kajibabu,

Guru Rinpoche is very important in the Kagyu school.

Here's the Seven Line Supplication to Guru Rinpoche from the 17th Karmapa:

http://kagyuoffice.org/the-seven-line-s ... -rinpoche/

Best wishes,

Berry

PS I think this thread should be in the Tibetan section

.

Thank you Berry for the link.

My main concern is that Guru Rinpoche already did great work in 8th century and Buddha dharma was being practiced in Tibet since then though with some obstacles after 3 kings. Marpa went to India in 11th century to learn Dharma and brought to Tibet. They have done great on their own rights. But just wondering that Kadampa was linked somehow through GAMPOPA, but what about the linkage between Nyingma and Kagyu at that time period. It is great nowadays that all schools of Tibetan Buddhism has been running harmoniously with their own uniqueness except the New Kadampa Tradition led by Kelsang Gyatso. Many of great masters are good at practicing Dzogchen and Mahamudra simultaneously in these days. I was just wondering whether Marpa was inclined to go to India with high risk or the teachings of Guru Padmasambhav was kept hidden during that time.

[dzoki]

Marpa must have been aware of earlier Dharma tradition, since his own residence was not far from one temple built in an early period of Dharma transmission. Very little is known about Marpa´s life. Early sources say, that he was an unruly child, so his parents sent him to study far away from his home. His parents were apparently rich and influential family as Marpa later inherited a nice land and was made into local chieftain. After his studies with Drogmi Lotsawa (from 11 to 15/16 years old) he went to Nepal as a companion of Nyo Lotsawa and studied there mostly with Nepali students of Naropa. Then he went to Bengal and studied with Maitripa and some other Indian masters of the time. After spending few years in India and Nepal he went back to Tibet and established his estate and Dharma center. He had several exceptional students, such as Milarepa and Ngog Choku Dorje. When he passed away the care for his Dharma center fell to the family of Ngog, because his own relatives where somehow unable to take proper care of it. His lineage was mainly propagated through Ngog family lineage and Milarepa´s disciples. This much can be said. The actual connection between Kagyu lineages and Padmasambhava came later, though Milarepa was originally a Nyingma practitioner, it is not known whether he taught any of those teachings, then Rechungpa received some lineages from Indian students of Padmasambhava, as well as Tibetan terton called Nyan Rol (possibly Nyang Ral Nyima Ozer?). Gampopa was also originally a nyingma practitioner, but apart from his synthesis of semde and mahamudra (though I suspect this was originally Milarepa´s doing) it does not seem like he taught much about nyingma tantra. Later especially 2nd and 3rd Karmapas brought much more of Nyingma material into Kagyu practice, as did Pema Karpo and Rinchen Phuntsok in Drugpa and Drikung respectively. I don´t know what was the history of connection to Nyingma in other surviving Kagyu lineages - Taklung and Barom. Barom had a great terton Barwe Droje in 19th century. I think Marpa must have deifinitely be aware about Nyingma teachings´ existence, and he also probably knew about Guru Padmasambhava, but beyond that it´s hard to establish anything.

[kajibabu]

Thanks Dzoki for detail explanation. You have put very good logics.

[Berry]

Gampopa was also originally a nyingma practitioner

Gampopa was a doctor and then a Kadampa monk before meeting Milarepa.

https://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/lineage/kag06.php

.

[Malcolm]

Gampopa was also originally a nyingma practitioner

Gampopa was a doctor and then a Kadampa monk before meeting Milarepa.

https://www.kagyu.org/kagyulineage/lineage/kag06.php

.

As a young man, Gampopa was a Nyingma pracitioner; he became a monk because of the death of his wife.

[Berry]

As a young man, Gampopa was a Nyingma pracitioner; he became a monk because of the death of his wife.

Thanks, yes I know he became a monk when his wife died, but I didn't know about the Nyingma connection. However I was just reading about it at the following link, probably at about the same time that you were writing about it here!

When he was about fifteen years old, he studied many Nyingma scriptures and so had tremendous knowledge of the Nyingma tradition.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... ments.html

[vix]

The link is that Guru Rinpoche brought Buddhism to Tibet. Marpa was the founder of the Kagyuepa tradition. More can be found in Relative World Ultimate Mind by Tai Situpa.

[Sonam Wangchug]

I have seen in a text where it has said that Marpa was an emanation of Guru Rinpoche, and Dagmema was an emanation of Yeshe Tshogyal.

As I don't remember which text states this, it will be very difficult for me to provide the source.

I had always wondered myself, what Marpa's relation was to Guru Rinpoche. As the Nyingma teachings were also around in his lifetime, he must have had some kind of interaction with them.

However, in the visions of great masters, he seems pretty consistently focused on imparting the Kagyu teachings. Like when he taught the 6 yogas of Naropa to Jamyang Khyentse chokyi lodro in Bodghaya, or when he gave him the Hevajra blessings after a statue of him was supplicated, and then came to life.

[heart]

I have seen in a text where it has said that Marpa was an emanation of Guru Rinpoche, and Dagmema was an emanation of Yeshe Tshogyal.

As I don't remember which text states this, it will be very difficult for me to provide the source.

I had always wondered myself, what Marpa's relation was to Guru Rinpoche. As the Nyingma teachings were also around in his lifetime, he must have had some kind of interaction with them.

However, in the visions of great masters, he seems pretty consistently focused on imparting the Kagyu teachings. Like when he taught the 6 yogas of Naropa to Jamyang Khyentse chokyi lodro in Bodghaya, or when he gave him the Hevajra blessings after a statue of him was supplicated, and then came to life.

There was no Nyingma or Kagyu school at the time of Marpa. He was a part of the people bringing the Sarma (the new) teachings to Tibet and in the way creating the circumstances to difference the Nyingma school.

/magnus

[yeshegyaltsen]

No snga 'gyur rnying ma was already in use by that time. Zurchen Shakya Jungne, who was ten years older than Marpa, coined the term bka' ma to differentiate their early translation tradition from those following the new gter ma traditions, thereby dividing the Nyingma into two camps.

[heart]

No snga 'gyur rnying ma was already in use by that time. Zurchen Shakya Jungne, who was ten years older than Marpa, coined the term bka' ma to differentiate their early translation tradition from those following the new gter ma traditions, thereby dividing the Nyingma into two camps.

The Nyingma are not two camps.

/magnus

[yeshegyaltsen]

They were back then.

[heart]

They were back then.

I don't think so. Terma probably wasn't accepted by all immediately, but that doesn't really make it in to two camps since everyone accepted Kama.

/magnus