who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

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Grigoris
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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Grigoris » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:23 pm

smcj wrote:Once you find the woman you want to marry you can stop looking around at all of them.
Unless, of course, you are a polygamist! :tongue:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:24 pm

smcj wrote:
Simon E. wrote:That was not my experience at all smcj.
I found Kalu Rinpoche a very affecting and moving speaker.

Conversly most of the time CTR was a very formal and orthodox teacher.
It's just that it is not how he was most of the time that has shaped his legend.
Kalu R. was one of my teachers. I asked, and was accepted as a student. So obviously he got to me as well. If you listened closely you could pick up on his sense of humor, but overall I'd say his teaching style was as dry as dehydrated chalk, very traditional. I have no idea what his "personage" was like at all. What was moving was his humility and sincerity.
To me, a genuine presence of humility and sincerity is more earth shaking than anything else, these seem like rarer qualities than the other 'rock star" stuff, which can certainly sometimes be authentic..but obviously, there plenty examples of people falling for manufactured "presence" all over the place.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by smcj » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:26 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:
smcj wrote:Once you find the woman you want to marry you can stop looking around at all of them.
Unless, of course, you are a polygamist! :tongue:
True!

But all you really need is the experience of one living master to make the teachings and practices come alive for you.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Tsondru » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:10 pm

tyler2 wrote:
Tsondru wrote:Tyler2 I think your taking a mistaken approach.

Some people who try to follow gurus purely for their buzz or aura find themselves years down the line with a fraud.

All the best
i think i will find it hard to believe a fraud can emanate strong nirvanic peace consistantly, this is a sign hes victorious over negative emotion and liberated if hes doing it consistantly.

"But enlightenment is real and there are enlightened masters if you ever saw one you would be shook in the depths of your heart" - Sogyal Rinpoche in Glimpse after glimpse, sogyal was one of the last to grow up in pre tibet.


skip to 5:30 and hear how these masters talk about Chokyi lodro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlwH-jEHi_o

"When i found my self in front of him i was overcome by such a extraordinary joy that tears flowed from eyes and body was covered in goosepimples, from that moment on i had the greatest faith in him"

see how his presence inspired faith in these masters


Tyler .. I think you didn't really take a good look at what it was I said to you.

You are cherry picking to support your position, however I never denied nor did anyone else that there are masters that have a presence.

In terms of Frauds 'emanating' The point is there are people who felt they were emanating who were mislead. So people can be mistaken, the point was also those who followed a teacher based mainly on the 'vibe' they felt from him/her only to later find out their perception was mistaken.

You did not care to digest the other examples I posted of which there are many that refuted your position that masters must have such and such a vibe. If you look into the Namthars that is to say the Life stories many of the greatest teachers were actually scorned, abused and so forth at least for a period of time. I provided you examples of some of the Greatest masters to ever live, even those with the 'vibe' as you describe revered them so what does that say?

Yes you provide reference to a video where devoted students are speaking of their Guru, of course they have karmic connection with their teacher and revere him. However I am not denying that Jamyang khyentse chokyi lodro had a presence but there were those who did not view him as highly as the rinpoches speaking. So consider the teachers who were low key and who were not always perceived by others as being great, Patrul rinpoche for example. The Great mahasiddhas that seemed to some others according to HH Sakya trizin as 'common evil doers'. There are Siddhas who externally appear as negative and wicked people, wild, unkept and angry. Yet they are actually realized.

So instead of have such superficial assumptions of how people who are supposed to have realized a certain level of spiritual attainment should 'feel' or how they should 'exude' peace. It would be better to be more broad minded about this and understand indeed not only among Nirmanakaya emanations but also among secret yogis there are those who are not perceived by others as having what you think they definitely should have.

However judging from what you are saying you do not personally have a Lama, and those who are informing you in this conversation who have lamas, and have had experience with tibetan buddhism in varying degrees are informing you why they feel your position is mistaken. However your not listening to what is being said. Going after a perceived vibe can be mistaken, and while as ordinary beings our perception is clouded it is a safer bet to decide based on what their teachings are, to try to ascertain if they have Bodhichitta and the qualities spoken of in the texts.

I as well as others can go on providing examples of how great and realized beings were not seen by others as having a great vibe, and similar examples can be spoken of some who perceived others as having had a great presence. However ultimately it won't have a point if you just want to be decided that it is what you think it is. You can either listen to countless examples involving some of the greatest teachers, from multiple sources, or listen to the tune of your own whistle in which case it's pointless to go on..

All the best

Tsondru

Adi
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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Adi » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:02 am

:good:

At least I think it is so.

Adi

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by ngodrup » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:20 am

I had an experience some years ago of charisma and aura.
It was very eye-opening.

I saw two famous people within 24 hours and they both had
the same energy (from my point of view). Pope John Paul II
on one day and the very next day, David Bowie.

I've also meet both Presidents George Bush (Sr.) and Bill Clinton.
Similar charisma, but Bill Clinton felt like raw power.

Point I'm making here is any shaman might have some kind
of powerful vibration, but will they lead you to Buddahood?

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Grigoris » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:43 pm

ngodrup wrote:I had an experience some years ago of charisma and aura.
It was very eye-opening.

I saw two famous people within 24 hours and they both had
the same energy (from my point of view). Pope John Paul II
on one day and the very next day, David Bowie.

I've also meet both Presidents George Bush (Sr.) and Bill Clinton.
Similar charisma, but Bill Clinton felt like raw power.

Point I'm making here is any shaman might have some kind
of powerful vibration, but will they lead you to Buddahood?
You deny David Bowies capacity to lead you to Buddhahood? Unbeliever!!!

phpBB [video]
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by tyler2 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:15 pm

wow.... seriously bill clinton?..... this is getting silly/stupid!!.

some of you in this thread no im talking about something else.
some think im talking about charisma. IM NOT.

no way is bill clinton going to be shining with nirvanic peace.

ive met probably 1000s probably seen 10,000s of people in my life and it is very very incredibly rare to see someone "shine" dramatically in peace and bliss.

i think the way some of you are talking about it its too subtle from my subjective ive experience

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by tyler2 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:29 pm


Tyler .. I think you didn't really take a good look at what it was I said to you.

You are cherry picking to support your position, however I never denied nor did anyone else that there are masters that have a presence.

In terms of Frauds 'emanating' The point is there are people who felt they were emanating who were mislead. So people can be mistaken, the point was also those who followed a teacher based mainly on the 'vibe' they felt from him/her only to later find out their perception was mistaken.

You did not care to digest the other examples I posted of which there are many that refuted your position that masters must have such and such a vibe. If you look into the Namthars that is to say the Life stories many of the greatest teachers were actually scorned, abused and so forth at least for a period of time. I provided you examples of some of the Greatest masters to ever live, even those with the 'vibe' as you describe revered them so what does that say?

Yes you provide reference to a video where devoted students are speaking of their Guru, of course they have karmic connection with their teacher and revere him. However I am not denying that Jamyang khyentse chokyi lodro had a presence but there were those who did not view him as highly as the rinpoches speaking. So consider the teachers who were low key and who were not always perceived by others as being great, Patrul rinpoche for example. The Great mahasiddhas that seemed to some others according to HH Sakya trizin as 'common evil doers'. There are Siddhas who externally appear as negative and wicked people, wild, unkept and angry. Yet they are actually realized.

So instead of have such superficial assumptions of how people who are supposed to have realized a certain level of spiritual attainment should 'feel' or how they should 'exude' peace. It would be better to be more broad minded about this and understand indeed not only among Nirmanakaya emanations but also among secret yogis there are those who are not perceived by others as having what you think they definitely should have.

However judging from what you are saying you do not personally have a Lama, and those who are informing you in this conversation who have lamas, and have had experience with tibetan buddhism in varying degrees are informing you why they feel your position is mistaken. However your not listening to what is being said. Going after a perceived vibe can be mistaken, and while as ordinary beings our perception is clouded it is a safer bet to decide based on what their teachings are, to try to ascertain if they have Bodhichitta and the qualities spoken of in the texts.

I as well as others can go on providing examples of how great and realized beings were not seen by others as having a great vibe, and similar examples can be spoken of some who perceived others as having had a great presence. However ultimately it won't have a point if you just want to be decided that it is what you think it is. You can either listen to countless examples involving some of the greatest teachers, from multiple sources, or listen to the tune of your own whistle in which case it's pointless to go on..

All the best

Tsondru
thanks ill take what you said into account

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Sherlock » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:49 pm

Just because you feel vibrations from some master doesn't mean he can necessarily introduce you to your mind's nature even if he has some realization himself, it depends on the individual student.

ChNN met many high masters in Tibet and had respect for them all but in the end his root guru was an externally rather non-descript village doctor.

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by tyler2 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:21 pm

actually dilgo khyentse rinpoche could share the view just by placing his head near yours, numerous people can attest to this...

dilgo khyentse was the master of masters... the dalai lama said he was magnificent.

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Pero » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:16 pm

What's bugging me is how would you know what "nirvanic peace" is without achieving it yourself already?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Adi » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:43 pm

Pero wrote:What's bugging me is how would you know what "nirvanic peace" is without achieving it yourself already?
Indeed. Does it have a shape, color or texture? A particular scent? Or perhaps a particular way of measuring on the scale of light or sound? If only Buddha knows Buddha, how can someone like me with no special qualities ever hope to distinguish "nirvanic peace" from THX Surround Sound, a really good light show, or perhaps a demon or prankster who is just showing off?

Adi

tyler2
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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by tyler2 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:53 pm

Ayu wrote: Okay, then I can tell, the one who blew my socks of most, is no master. Nobody knows him and I won't tell his name right here. :thinking: I'm still wondering, how he managed to transfer this deep peace into my mind, just by sitting and smiling... Maybe I'll find it out one day. But he is definitely no master.
.
what this guy said you basically just know its peace but there are different levels of peace highest level is very beautiful
but to shine this peace dramatically is nearly impossible for a fraud to do.

one thing peace does is conquer all negative emotions, you feel instantly drawn to it like a fly to light, or a magnet...

like incredible peace came over you......

tyler2
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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by tyler2 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:12 pm

Adi wrote:
Pero wrote:What's bugging me is how would you know what "nirvanic peace" is without achieving it yourself already?
Indeed. Does it have a shape, color or texture? A particular scent? Or perhaps a particular way of measuring on the scale of light or sound? If only Buddha knows Buddha, how can someone like me with no special qualities ever hope to distinguish "nirvanic peace" from THX Surround Sound, a really good light show, or perhaps a demon or prankster who is just showing off?

Adi
strong peace conquers all negative emotion,
i will stress there are many different levels of peace,the stronger the peace the more drawn to it.
you gotta remember the ascetics originally rejected buddha and were gonna scorn him again, but as he drew closer the peace conquered all the negative emotion they had...

bob
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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by bob » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:02 am

The lady at the supermarket check-out

The mother screaming at her kid

The kid screaming back

Every little breeze that whispers "Louise"

The tall pine next to the house

The house

The woman who lives there

Her dog

The guy in the mirror

The mirror


:anjali:

Adi
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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by Adi » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:21 am

tyler2 wrote: what this guy said you basically just know its peace but there are different levels of peace highest level is very beautiful
but to shine this peace dramatically is nearly impossible for a fraud to do.
So not impossible.
one thing peace does is conquer all negative emotions, you feel instantly drawn to it like a fly to light, or a magnet...

like incredible peace came over you......
Like a moth to a flame? Well, then, you're relying on the very subjective experience of your emotions propelled by habitual tendencies and unless you are able to see the five poisons completely as the five wisdoms, it seems unwise to rely only upon such an experience.

Then again, if you can't resist from being drawn to the shiny ones, it's obviously your trip to take. :)

Adi

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by JKhedrup » Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:58 am

HH Dalai Lama is the greatest I've seen by far.

But in terms of greatest impact on my practice, geshe Sonam, due to hid precious almost daily guidance.

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by narraboth » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:12 pm

Nighthawk wrote:Never met a master in my life. I'm more of a protestant Buddhist, no need for any living masters or guru worship. The suttas/sutras are my bible.
Even Bible, under some people's intepretion, it guides them to hatre, discrimination, and bigot mind. Not to mention the huge volume of sutras in different tradition. People can always find some words to rationalise their wrong view.
We need good teacher(s) and/or spiritual friend(s), that's what Buddha clearly said again and again in Sutras.

(Sorry to say this, but if you take sutras as your 'bible', I don't think you really that protestant a buddhist. Sutras shouldn't be taken by Buddhists like how Christian takes Bible. Buddha said 'check my words, like checking a piece of gold'. Arya Matriya said 'follow the actual meaning (of Buddha), not the surface meaning')

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Re: who is the Greatest master you have ever seen?

Post by narraboth » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:58 pm

It hugely depends on your karma link with the master.

I have two important guru, whom I now pay lots respect on, but in the beginning I didn't have much feeling on them. I will not give their name here, but they are very high lama, very well known and respected by many other great lama. I decided to receive their teaching because my sense told me that they are great masters, and it will be very fortunate to have a link with them. However my emtion was not very keen. For those two very high lama, I know many other people, including my own guru, have very strong feeling with their presence. I trust that my guru knows better than me about who is great teacher and who is not, so I think it's just me, either I am covered by some obstruction or I don't have as strong karma link with them.

Moreover, when I was in the teaching of one of them, crazy ideas start to jump up in my head such as 'he looks old' 'his face is ....' I didn't really think that way, but it's like it just appeared in my mind, and the more I tried to surpress them the more they come up.
I was worried and upset, I asked another great lama, recently passed Karma Chagmed rinpoche. I said I was scared that I was breaking samaya. He answered me with great kindness: it's not a big problem, it's just because of some karma. Practice refuge and it will be fine.

Now I don't have that problem anymore. When I think of the two lama, I feel gratitude for their kindness and I rejoice my good luck to have met them.

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