extibetanbuddhist dot com

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
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Malcolm
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:23 pm

smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by reddust » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:37 pm

From my experience if you have some training in the basic principles of sutta study it's easy to see Mahayana and Vajrayana have all the data that Gotama Buddha brought back to this world. If one isn't grounded no matter where you go in the Buddhist world you can get lost in the side shows. The Dharma/Dhamma became what it is today per the culture's conditions it settled in... It's hard to get taken by a shyster if you have the basic teachings down pat.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living

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smcj
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by smcj » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:03 pm

Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
My understanding was that they were approving of his spiritual development, compassion, humility, devotion etc. When Chatrul R. gave him his Refuge name I remember it translating as something like, "dharma person that has no lineage", lol.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:10 pm

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
My understanding was that they were approving of his spiritual development, compassion, humility, devotion etc. When Chatrul R. gave him his Refuge name I remember it translating as something like, "dharma person that has no lineage", lol.
I don't know about a refuge name, but I believe Chatral Rinpoche called him a 'rangjung sangyay', perhaps not entirely seriously, but nevertheless approvingly.
It takes a great being to be daring enough to cultivate a bad reputation. - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:12 pm

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
My understanding was that they were approving of his spiritual development, compassion, humility, devotion etc. When Chatrul R. gave him his Refuge name I remember it translating as something like, "dharma person that has no lineage", lol.
Merton was interested in Dzogchen, since he had heard about it from Bede Griffiths. He asked HHDL, HHDL sent him to Chatral.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


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—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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smcj
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by smcj » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:15 pm

dzogchungpa wrote: I don't know about a refuge name, but I believe Chatral Rinpoche called him a 'rangjung sangyay', perhaps not entirely seriously, but nevertheless approvingly.
Ah yes, Self-Arising Buddha. I took the self-arising part to mean no lineage--my own interpretation.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by smcj » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:17 pm

Malcolm wrote: Merton was interested in Dzogchen, since he had heard about it from Bede Griffiths. He asked HHDL, HHDL sent him to Chatral.
A quote from Simon E., quoting HHDL, from a different thread:
...so how do you explain Thomas Merton a Chtristian monk who was described by HHDL as having at that time a deeper knowledge of Dharma than any westerner he had met ?
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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Once in a while you can get shown the light
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Malcolm
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:19 pm

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote: Merton was interested in Dzogchen, since he had heard about it from Bede Griffiths. He asked HHDL, HHDL sent him to Chatral.
A quote from Simon E., quoting HHDL, from a different thread:
...so how do you explain Thomas Merton a Chtristian monk who was described by HHDL as having at that time a deeper knowledge of Dharma than any westerner he had met ?

There were not many westerners who had any understanding of Dharma in 1968, least of all who would have met HHDL at that time.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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smcj
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by smcj » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:22 pm

There were not many westerners who had any understanding of Dharma in 1968, least of all who would have met HHDL at that time.
Hmmm.
In his autobiography, Freedom in Exile, the Dalai Lama described Merton's visit as one of his "happiest memories of this time" and said that it was Thomas Merton who "introduced [him] to the real meaning of the word 'Christian'." (2) Later, in an interview, when asked the three most influential people in his life His Holiness replied his Dharma teacher, Chairman Mao Tse-tung and Thomas Merton. (3)

Again and again over the years in his public teachings the Dalia Lama has held up Thomas Merton as a model for interfaith dialog and world peace.

At the Abbey of Gethsemani in 1996 the Dalai Lama said:

I always consider myself as one of [Thomas Merton's] Buddhist brothers. So … I always remember him, and I always admire his activities and his life-style. Since my meeting with him … I really follow some of his examples … So for the rest of my life, the impact of meeting him will remain until my last breath. I really want to state that I make this commitment, and this will remain until my last breath. (4)
By 1996 he had met a whole lot of people. HHDL hasn't said anything like that about anybody since, to the best of my knowledge.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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Malcolm
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:17 pm

smcj wrote: By 1996 he had met a whole lot of people. HHDL hasn't said anything like that about anybody since, to the best of my knowledge.
But he is not extolling Merton here for his understanding of Buddhism, rather, for his example as a human being. Two entirely different issues.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by smcj » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:40 pm

But he is not extolling Merton here for his understanding of Buddhism, rather, for his example as a human being. Two entirely different issues.
Lol! That's my point!
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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Once in a while you can get shown the light
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Adi » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:03 pm

Malcolm wrote:But he is not extolling Merton here for his understanding of Buddhism, rather, for his example as a human being. Two entirely different issues.
Yes. If one reads what HH Dalai Lama has said about Merton and reads Merton's Asian Journals and adds Chatral Rinpoche calling him a self-arising Buddha, I think it is clear from a very general Buddhist sense what it's all about. No one is saying that by being a Cistercian monk Merton achieved Buddhist realization, but by karma of previous lives Merton found himself in this life as he did and meeting all these amazing Tibetan lamas. His causes and conditions caused something to ripen and he had many an apparently auspicious encounter with them.

Currenty, interfaith dialogue is also of great concern to HH Dalai Lama and indeed he continues to say that Merton is "a model for interfaith dialog and world peace." He does not say that he was a realized practitioner of some kind. Whatever the views, though, I sincerely wish there were more of these kinds of scenes going on in our increasingly crowded world, both in life and in honor of such exemplary lives lived.

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by honestdboy » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am

That's interesting reading, but it only mentions the bad side of TB. I prefer Bill Schwartz's Tinfoil page, which is critical but sometimes has something good to say about TB: https://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Derek » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:53 am

kajibabu wrote:
Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:38 am
I did not find even the depth of study like another antagonist writing webpage
If you want a deeper study, her critique has now been turned into a full-length book with the title Enthralled: The Guru Cult of Tibetan Buddhism.

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by jkarlins » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:23 am

no

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Virgo » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:47 am

Off topic posts removed. Please remain on topic. Thank you.

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by PuerAzaelis » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:27 pm

[never mind]
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by emaho » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:47 pm

honestdboy wrote:
Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am
That's interesting reading, but it only mentions the bad side of TB. I prefer Bill Schwartz's Tinfoil page, which is critical but sometimes has something good to say about TB: https://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/
Really? What do you like about this site? I just took a look at some articles at that site and it looks to me like he doesn't even try to be objective. Honestly I don't like how he writes. In this article for instance he mentions a Lama Norlha whom he calls "the Harvey Weinstein of Tibetan Buddhism" and he also says "And let us not forget how the Panama Papers caught “His Holiness” laundering money for the Chinese." Unfortunately for those like me who haven't heard of either scandal he neither provides any background information on either topic, nor does he link to external sources that would provide further information. Not very professional in my opinion, even if he's possibly right. Even in an opinion piece you should provide the reader the essential pieces of information. For me this site is a waste of time. :shrug:
"Do yourself a favor and get out of Samsara!" Dudjom Rinpoche, Counsels From My Heart

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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Varis » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:51 pm

tobes wrote:
Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:37 am
It's pretty interesting politically. Classic paranoid libertarianism, USA style - every collective is a totalitarian plot/conspiracy to rule the world!

But then, to quote Kurt Cobain: “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you." i.e. Of course there are some granules of truth in her critique.

:anjali:
I have to be completely honest that her post reeked of nothing more than this.
I'm sure she's had terrible experiences, but she appears to have gone off her rocker and transformed that into a mega-conspiracy of Tibetan Lamas trying to conquer the West. The sad part is that she'll probably gain an audience who will genuinely believe that Tibetan Lamas are behind everything bad in the world.

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heart
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Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by heart » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:03 pm

emaho wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:47 pm
honestdboy wrote:
Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am
That's interesting reading, but it only mentions the bad side of TB. I prefer Bill Schwartz's Tinfoil page, which is critical but sometimes has something good to say about TB: https://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/
Really? What do you like about this site? I just took a look at some articles at that site and it looks to me like he doesn't even try to be objective. Honestly I don't like how he writes. In this article for instance he mentions a Lama Norlha whom he calls "the Harvey Weinstein of Tibetan Buddhism" and he also says "And let us not forget how the Panama Papers caught “His Holiness” laundering money for the Chinese." Unfortunately for those like me who haven't heard of either scandal he neither provides any background information on either topic, nor does he link to external sources that would provide further information. Not very professional in my opinion, even if he's possibly right. Even in an opinion piece you should provide the reader the essential pieces of information. For me this site is a waste of time. :shrug:
It seems the situation in the offshore leaks he is speculating about is this: https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/153909

/magnus
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