Validity of recorded empowerments

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
smcj
Posts: 5626
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by smcj » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:54 pm

I'd rather attend an in-person empowerment than an online one. But then again I'm old-fashioned, and I've never had any experience at any empowerment anyway, so what do I know?

On the other hand, when HHKarmapa starts doing Vajra Crown ceremonies again, I'd like to suggest that people go in person if they can. It is a visual experience, and different people may see different things at the same ceremony. Plus the same person may sees different things at different ceremonies. I don't think that will happen on your computer.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

User avatar
Lhug-Pa
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:06 pm

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 35#p186605

Even so^, I agree with Pensum on this.

Better to err on the safe side and attend webcasts live, because we can't be sure that the ones who responded to Karma Dorje in the quoted email correspondence in the above-linked post didn't misunderstand Garchen Rinpoche.

Besides, H.E. Garchen Rinpoche conducts live webcasts all the time, as do other authentic Lamas who are endorsed by H.H. the Dalai Lama; so why not just try to be patient and wait for the next live webcast (I know, it can be tough counting the minutes to a webcast that's a couple weeks or so away).

And of course if there's a Gompa or Ling with an authentic Lineage Holder close by, it's good to at least make an effort to investigate and consider participating.

Although some people have found that they have more of a connection to Lamas who do frequent webcasts than they do to teachers in local Dharma centers.

Doesn't hurt to participate via both ways though (i.e. in person and via webcast)
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JohnJ
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by JohnJ » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:23 pm

Fortunately, for students who have faith and confidence in the teachings of Garchen Rinpoche, it does not matter in the least what Malcolm has to say in disagreement with Rinpoche on an Internet forum. Malcolm is not a lineage holder, nor is he a representative of Garchen Rinpoche. I would remind all students of Garchen Rinpoche to listen their teacher's words on this topic, and take Malcolm's advice on this issue with all the expedience and importance one might place in an advertisement found stuck in the windshield wiper of their car- A passing contrivance, a temporary distraction, and a very minor inconvenience in one's attempt at understanding. Just because one is entitled to an opinion doesn't make that opinion worth listening to, which is fortunately the case in this issue.

I would remind my Vajra brothers and sisters of Garchen Rinpoche that he does not teach Samaya in the way that Malcolm and many others here often indicate. My university degree is in religion, and mainly I focused on the area of Judaism- so I can tell you, if I wanted a covenant based religion formulated on a set of codes than I would have chosen to do more than academically study a religion that values those things. Garchen Rinpoche has said that Samaya is the love one has for the teacher and fellow Vajra family members. He has even said on many occasions that seeing him in his physical body is not important. I say this out of compassion, so that Malcolm's unfounded discouragement is utterly vanquished. I am speaking to those who love Garchen Rinpoche and have not, or maybe never will, have the opportunity to meet him.

You can trust that the empowerments (recorded or live) are valid, your relationship with Garchen Rinpoche is real, and your faith in him is well placed. Love has the capacity to overcome all doubts. Let pandits continue to argue their opinions, and experientially follow in the wisdom of your teacher. Garchen Rinpoche and the teachers at Garchen Institute have been beyond clear in private conversations with me and in public announcements: If an empowerment has been placed on the Internet with Rinpoche's permission it is valid. There is no chance for misunderstanding.

As Garchen Rinpoche advised his students during an empowerment and teachings last year, "When those discourage you about receiving empowerment as I have instructed on the internet, ignore them and think nothing of it, that is what I do." I should do the same here, but every once in awhile the fundamentalist game of intellectual rightness that plays itself out on this forum with all the impressiveness of an argument between a Calvanist and an Armenian kind of gets to me, you know?

On the whole, I come here to check out Dharma Events, and see what's going on in the community. Sometimes I make the mistake of clicking on anything else. It's a shame that such an opportunity to converse and share in peace and empathy so very often turns into one person trying to steamroll another into their particular way of thinking. I beg you folks to try and show love towards one another and treat each other with the same gentleness you would want others to show toward what you hold sacred. From the bottom of my heart, please try to understand one another's faith and love for their teacher, and the uniqueness of that relationship.

User avatar
Lhug-Pa
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:31 pm

To clarify my previous post, I was not discouraging anyone from making a connection to Garchen Rinpoche via webcast.

I'm only saying that since I've not heard from H.E. Garchen Rinpoche directly that the recordings (not be confused with the online live webcast streams) are sufficient, I personally would err on the safe side and consider that there's a possibility that someone relaying information has misunderstood Garchen Rinpoche on the matter.

Like I'd said, Garchen Rinpoche conducts live webcasts regularly, so there are many opportunities to receive live teachings from H.E.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KonchokZoepa
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by KonchokZoepa » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:32 pm

JohnJ

Garchen Rinpoche teaches the same samayas that other Lamas teach too. after all he follows his lineage. You can find his teachings on the root and secondary samayas as a cd teaching on his webstore.

and i think what Garchen Rinpoche means by saying Samaya is holding love towards all beings is that that is the ultimate samaya, the ultimate fruit of holding the root and secondary samayas clean and pure. that is the result, that is the highest samaya, but nowhere can you hear him saying, love is your only samaya, you don't have to adhere to the samaya vows that are common to all tantric empowerments. I think i have heard him say that those root and branch samayas are love manifesting itself through your action ( holding the samaya purely ). so probably yes Love or bodhicitta is the ultimate samaya but that shouldn't be used as a ultimate statement taken word by word, it is so often said, don't listen to the words, listen to the meaning etc.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4796
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by conebeckham » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:46 pm

I understand people get emotional and possibly defensive about all of this. You have to understand there are general, doctrinal presentations of topics, and there are unique, circumstance-based presentations as well.

In the same way that Garchen Rinpoche's advice to his students and those who participate in the internet streaming/recorded empowerments is appropriate for them, other, sometimes contradictory advice from others may function for other people, in other situations.

There are also a wide variety of empowerments, and these can be tailored to fit the needs and circumstances of students and groups. Above all, it is the Vajra Master and the student who establish and maintain samaya, together.

I have no question that the "samayas" mentioned with regard to Garchen Rinpoche's video empowerments are appropriate and reasonable for the students who attend or watch those empowerments. But frankly I would much rather receive empowerment in person, preferably in a small group. Again, that is because of the totality of my experience thus far; everyone's experience differs. But my main point, and I'll make it again, is that whenever possible, the best thing to do is to attend physically, in person. I don't believe there's any dispute on that point.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7976
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:47 pm

People who are complaining that it "might not be legit" etc. that Garchen Rinpoche said this, seem to be engaging in more gossip than those who are simply taking him at his word, don't know if people didn't read the thread link I posted or what.
“If you don't live nearby and cannot come, but with all your heart would like to, that is the right motivation for receiving the empowerment over the internet.”
Is there something ambiguous about that?

I'm gonna editorialize a bit here, and say something specifically that I think some in the community could stand to hear:

When I first came to this site and started getting involved in Vajrayana, I asked many of the same newbie questions that everyone has about empowerment, propriety etc.

I DO think that some of you have a really bad habit of taking as what your teacher has said on the subject (or just your own experience of things - I have no way of knowing of course), and presenting it as if it's THE definitive answer for everyone else. I have found this to be untrue experientally, as I simply directly asked my own teachers the same questions I asked here, and was given different very different answers than the (fairly vehement in some cases) responses I got here.

I have no idea who is doctrinally correct regarding online empowerment, if anyone. The fact is though that I will (obviously) err on the side of my teachers, just like you guys..the difference being, i'm not going to post about how a given method of empowerment is invalid for someone else because it is different from what I've been told.

Tibetan Buddhism is obviously quite Byzantine in the number and range of instructions given on different subjects, again it really makes the most sense to me that we actually listen to the teachers in question regarding their own teachings, rather than trying to create global rules for other people...doesn't this make the most sense? If not, why not?

Again, i'm not trying to come down on one side or the other, like most people here, I have no authority whatsoever on the subject, and never will...I do however take issue with people presenting their own viewpoint on it as if it overrides what a teacher is clearly saying about their own teachings to their students and/or prospective students, it is pretty easy to read Garchen Rinpoches words without adding our spin to it, and I didn't see anywhere that he stated it was meant to apply to other teacher's empowerments..so, no issue there.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

JohnJ
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by JohnJ » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:56 pm

Yes, he follows in his lineage, and I apologize for causing any confusion or inferring otherwise. He has said in the past, at least according to his translation at the time, that holding the root Samaya of generating the altruistic mind fulfills the branch Samayas. He has also stated that it is good if one can keep the branch Samayas, but since it isn't always possible, the root Samaya of Bodhicitta will suffice. We are all doing our best to understand our teacher, and because he does not speak much English, some differences are more than understandable. Telling Garchen Rinpoche's students that they did not receive blessings and contravening what he has said about the equality of those who receive empowerments in person versus via livestream introduces scandal, schism, and divisiveness into the community.

Can any of you imagine the collective outcry if someone went into the Dzogchen section of this board and started claiming that those who received transmission by webcast lacked the blessings to engage in practice, or really weren't ChNN's student? Of course, maybe that has actually happened, in which case, I am sure that understanding and kindness prevailed and won the day. So much of what is said here devolves into cruelty, name calling, and belligerent grandstanding that is kind of ironic that conversations about Samaya breakage don't gravitate toward the overall Samaya decay that is continuously displayed in these conversations.

I played a game last night where I visited random threads, about 30 of them, and over 25 included senseless inane, borderline hateful arguments. What is really going on here?

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 27527
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Malcolm » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:00 pm

JohnJ wrote:Telling Garchen Rinpoche's students that they did not receive blessings and contravening what he has said about the equality of those who receive empowerments in person versus via livestream introduces scandal, schism, and divisiveness into the community.
This what I said:

I am really not certain at all that recorded empowerments have the necessary qualities to confer the stream of blessings. In fact, I am sure that they don't.

That is my opinion. I did not tell anyone what to do or not do. There are some who agree with me, and some who do not.

M
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Motova
Posts: 973
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Motova » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:02 pm

I love how right when I start thinking of even starting to practice the White Tara Sadhana from Garchen Rinpoche's site Malcolm posts this. On the same day too. :applause:

I trust Garchen and I'll try it regardless of this thread. Hopefully I'll receive a sign for go or no in a dream or something. :shrug:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

User avatar
Lhug-Pa
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:03 pm

Did anybody here say that one cannot receive the Blessings during H.E. Garchen Rinpoche's online live webcasts?

It seems to me that the only thing in question here is the recordings of the webcasts; and that a couple individuals here would prefer to attend in person as opposed to webcasts.

I don't think anyone here has said that the online live webcasts aren't sufficient....

And again, I haven't directly heard or seen H.E. Garchen Rinpoche say that recordings are sufficient; therefore I'll consider that second-hand information could be based on a misunderstanding.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

supermaxv
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:46 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by supermaxv » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:05 pm

Now, Garchen Rinpoche is not my guru and I have no dharma connection to him, but I have close dharma siblings who find him incredibly inspiring and feel a strong connection to him which I think is utterly wonderful, and I also have no question regarding the "validity" of his blessings as conferred over the Internet.... but I do cringe slightly when people very casually recommend around here that they take empowerment from him online simply because he is the only one who is doing so in such an open, flexible, and convenient manner. I can't quite articulate why, but from a motivation and examine-your-guru standpoint* that doesn't seem quite right to me.

* i am not insinuating anything here

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6199
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:08 pm

JohnJ wrote:I played a game last night where I visited random threads, about 30 of them, and over 25 included senseless inane, borderline hateful arguments.
Are you saying that there were some that didn't?

:jawdrop:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4796
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by conebeckham » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:13 pm

Well....

It's impossible to address every specific instance of something anywhere, much less on a Dharma Wheel message board. It's normal to refer to an doctrinal, or orthodox, or general position--there are many texts in Tibetan about empowerments, samaya, etc., and several of them have been translated into English, fortunately. So, it's quite a simple matter to determine what a "Mainstream" or at least "Lineage-specific" view of a matter is....and I would think serious practitioners would want to educate themselves as best they can. Of course, one's teacher's advice about specific circumstances trump the more general positions. I recall being shocked when I read that, I think it was Kyergangpa, was told by his teacher not to recite refuge, 7 branch prayers, and other assorted "preliminary" stages of a practice......of course, I didn't think such instructions applied to me, personally.

In addition, and I'm not saying this is the case in this thread, but there are a wide variety of levels of experience and knowledge on DW --from Loppons like Malcom (He is an authorized teacher, folks, and frankly more knowledgeable about a wider range of Dharma subjects than many Tibetan "Lamas,") and maybe even Acharyas and such, to those who, quite frankly, have read a book or two and are making stuff up. Frankly, the latter sorts of folks seem to be surfacing with great frequency lately here. Again, not on this thread.......

I have no interest in creating schism, etc. but I will say that it's true that a given "empowerment" can, and is, modified by the giver, depending on circumstances. I have seen this happen personally, when a Lama feels that the more specific samayas, etc., cannot be maintained by the audience. There is still benefit, you know...

If I were committed to Garchen Rinpoche as a teacher, you can bet I would travel to see him, and I would actively ask for transmissions, and do my best to obtain personal time with him, as this is the commitment I'd expect from a serious practitioner. I know he's busy, but I'd bet he's got a few students who have made that sort of commitment. That's what I want to encourage.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

JohnJ
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:19 am

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by JohnJ » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:17 pm

This what I said:

I am really not certain at all that recorded empowerments have the necessary qualities to confer the stream of blessings. In fact, I am sure that they don't.

That is my opinion. I did not tell anyone what to do or not do. There are some who agree with me, and some who do not.
You are right, it was my mistake to directly infer that you were issuing mandates. However, the question as to the purpose of your statement remains. Why express an opinion that is in direct contradiction to the words of an established, well respected and loved teacher? You know how much people respect what you say on this forum due to the accumulation of your knowledge. Surely that understanding influences what you say, and since what you say goes against the advice of a teacher that many here follow very diligently, I cannot even begin to understand why you would find your own opinion important enough that it is worth introducing doubt, confusion, and discord.

An opinion such as the one you gave, as you can see, has made others feel that they aren't even sure if they can practice a simple White Tara sadhana. Is that you wanted to spread, a feeling of being disconnected, left out, and unable to share in the blessings of one's cherished teacher? You speak as if your opinion has dogmatic validity, that is the tone in which you display your thoughts, and your certainty based upon your consistent quotes and knowledge of scripture seems to indicate this sola scriptura attitude toward teachings. However, in the past you have said that one's own teacher matters more than ancient scripture, your specific example being the importance of ChNN's words over Longchenpa, if I remember correctly.

I would rather believe you made the statements you did in an unthinking fashion, but based on everything else I've read, its hard to believe that someone as intelligent as yourself might have spoken on such important issues in an offhand way.

User avatar
Lhug-Pa
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:19 pm

supermaxv wrote:...but I do cringe slightly when people very casually recommend around here that they take empowerment from him online simply because he is the only one who is doing so in such an open, flexible, and convenient manner. I can't quite articulate why, but from a motivation and examine-your-guru standpoint* that doesn't seem quite right to me.

* i am not insinuating anything here
Hm, I didn't see anyone imply such a thing.

And Garchen Rinpoche isn't the only one.

I personally find H.E. Garchen Rinpoche's teachings to be solid Dharma teachings, and was and am inspired by the fact that as soon as he got out of Communist prison, he wanted to re-receive the Bodhisattva vows from H.H. the Dalai Lama.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Adi
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:45 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Adi » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:21 pm

JohnJ wrote:Fortunately, for students who have faith and confidence in the teachings of Garchen Rinpoche, it does not matter in the least what Malcolm has to say in disagreement with Rinpoche on an Internet forum. Malcolm is not a lineage holder, nor is he a representative of Garchen Rinpoche. I would remind all students of Garchen Rinpoche to listen their teacher's words on this topic, and take Malcolm's advice on this issue with all the expedience and importance one might place in an advertisement found stuck in the windshield wiper of their car- A passing contrivance, a temporary distraction, and a very minor inconvenience in one's attempt at understanding. Just because one is entitled to an opinion doesn't make that opinion worth listening to, which is fortunately the case in this issue.
Allow me to edit this, which will just be another opinion, but possibly relevant here.
Fortunately, for students who have faith and confidence in the teachings of their teacher, it does not matter in the least what anyone else has to say in disagreement with their teacher on an Internet forum. Such a poster may or may not be lineage holder or representative of their teacher. I would remind all students to listen their teacher's words on this topic, and take anyone else's advice on this issue with all the expedience and importance one might place in a posting on an internet forum -- A passing contrivance, a temporary distraction, etc.
Adi

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7976
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:21 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Did anybody here say that one cannot receive the Blessings during H.E. Garchen Rinpoche's online live webcasts?

It seems to me that the only thing in question here is the recordings of the webcasts; and that a couple individuals here would prefer to attend in person as opposed to webcasts.

I don't think anyone here has said that the online live webcasts aren't sufficient....

And again, I haven't directly heard or seen H.E. Garchen Rinpoche say that recordings are sufficient; therefore I'll consider that second-hand information could be based on a misunderstanding.

Did you not read the thread? It was directly said, here let me repost it:

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14135
supermaxv wrote:Now, Garchen Rinpoche is not my guru and I have no dharma connection to him, but I have close dharma siblings who find him incredibly inspiring and feel a strong connection to him which I think is utterly wonderful, and I also have no question regarding the "validity" of his blessings as conferred over the Internet.... but I do cringe slightly when people very casually recommend around here that they take empowerment from him online simply because he is the only one who is doing so in such an open, flexible, and convenient manner. I can't quite articulate why, but from a motivation and examine-your-guru standpoint* that doesn't seem quite right to me.

* i am not insinuating anything here
I agree here, it seems like a bad precedent to think one can just "pick up" an empowerment as a convenience., but at the same time, personally I do not want my personal feelings involved at all, I think the only sane thing to say re: Garchen Rinpoche's empowerments specifically is to direct people to what he said about them when a DW member inquired via the thread I posted. similarly, I don't understand why anyone thinks some kind of line in the sand needs to be drawn about online empowerment, other than asking one's own teacher, or the teacher one wants empowerment from.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 16855
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Protectors How do I choose one?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:24 pm

conebeckham wrote:Yes. In fact, there are many lineage transmissions that no longer exist, because they were not passed on.....so, for example, there is the text for Transmisison of consciousness in Marpa's lineage, but the actual blessing transmission no longer is extant.
I mean in the case where somebody is trying to transmit them (even a recorded attempt, ie not here and now) and somebody is trying to receive them.
I think he is benefitting beings, and making connections....but this does not change my opinion that, relatively speaking, there is limited value in getting an "empowerment" from a video recording, as compared to a live interaction. This is just my opinion, based on my own experience.
But how much of our experience is just experience? I mean I remember at one empowerment the couple behind me were crying like babies, I felt like my brain had just gone through a high power microwave oven and the people in front of me were having a conversation along the lines of: "I didn't feel anything, did you feel anything? What were we meant to feel?" etc... I get the same feeling with the recorded videos and live internet transmissions too.

How much of it all really is just expedient means? I'm starting to think that it is like 99% internal, 0.5% external and 0.5% plain old bs. But then, I'm just a deluded twit.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Lhug-Pa
Posts: 1429
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:58 pm

Re: Validity of recorded empowerments

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:25 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Did you not read the thread? It was directly said, here let me repost it:

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14135
The mentioned post looks like it is referring to receiving the teachings online via live webcast.

I didn't see anything there about recordings.

Perhaps some are not getting that a recording of a online webcast is not the same as a live online webcast.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Locked

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Mantrik, mechashivaz, PeterC and 79 guests